Talk:American Orthodox Catholic Church

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Isn't the AOCC a cult? Did they later transform into something legit or are they keeping revealing info on them off this page?

During the '60's, this organization was not a church but a weird Victorian-influenced fascist & occultist cult made up of bishops, priests, (captains and lieutenants, essentially) and no actual congregation, that believed beings from outer space were communicating with them during ghostly visitations about how big the human population should be, what human culture should be, and whether or not humans should go into space and in what manner. A disturbing number of the people apparently involved in the JFK assassination who were under investigation by DA Jim Garrison in New Orleans turned out to be members of or otherwise connected to it. This is a matter of public record and has been further backed up by subsequent research. Truly truly bizarre group of people, many in positions of power, who also appeared to be using their little group to recruit intelligence and law enforcement assets as a parallel network outside normal channels. Even Garrison was dumbfounded at the strangeness of what they were involved with. 71.65.115.103 (talk) 07:55, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Different, it appears

Perhaps the cult stole the name. Because according to this

http://orthodoxwiki.org/American_Orthodox_Catholic_Church

There was an actual church by that informal name (formally called The Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church in North America) that ceased to have much status in the 1930s and completely ended in the mid-1960s. One group claimed corporate rights to the name in 1995 and in 2007 another organization was attempting to lay claim to the name. I'm wondering if the cult/front-group hijacked that name or perhaps was the last gasp of an organization that they somehow became a part of after it had stopped being a traditional church. What these men Garrison was investigating were actually members of was not a church in a normal sense and does not appear to have been referred to by them as The Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church in North America. It's also possible the cultists just accidentally took the name upon themselves and had no affiliation with identifying themselves as the original namesake. If it was a front organization, then it might also make sense to instead actually use a name of a defunct church that had a tax record on file. 71.65.115.103 (talk) 08:13, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Citations and Sources

Regarding citations, it appears that this page may be cited in an early form of MLA. I have been looking for the sources listed in order to properly cite using Wikipedia's citation tool, but as I cannot access/easily find the sources listed, I cannot fix this page. For more information on Wikipedia and citations, please view the content guideline here: WP:CITE. I'm hoping that some of the editors who spend a lot of time on this page can help fix the citations here.

This article is also highly technical, using abbreviations such as Metr., Fr., and various others, rather than typing the word it stands for (at least the first time on a page)- please see Wiki's content guideline on this found at WP:ABBR.Ariadne (talk) 18:24, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

To User:TheLionHasSeen

Why did you revert all my edits, including sfn templates? The 2011 book "The Russian Church Abroad in 1925-1938. Jurisdictional conflicts and relations with the Moscow Church authorities" is not a polemical pamphlet, but a serious historical work, written by Andery Kostryukov. He is the most significant specialist in nowaday Russia on the history of the ROCOR. I did not impose my point of view, but mainly quoted historical documents. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 06:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Чръный человек, forgive me, however the tone of the text from the MP and ROCOR sources, perhaps due to translation issues, may have appeared to have seemed a bit contested in their ethos and demeanor? I also rewrote and condensed the information in a summary-style, correcting those grammatical errors found. Forgive me, but I did not mean to accuse you of bias, rather, the sources by their language. - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 13:05, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I need to think about it. In any case, we need to explain why Metropolitan Platon change his mind about THEOCACNA from approval to rejection. To do this, we need to write about his departure from the ROCOR. And about his defrocking by the ROCOR for this. Accordingly, any acts of Metropolitan Platon could not be recognized by the ROCOR. The Ecumenical Patriarchate could not recognize THEOCACNA, because Ecumenical Patriarchate believed (and still believing) that the entire Eastern Orthodox diaspora belongs only to them. The Patriarchate of Antioch could not recognize THEOCACNA too, since they claimed to be the head of all Eastern Orthodox Arab believers. The Moscow Patriarchate also could not recognize the unauthorized creation of the new church, since it believed that Metropolitan Platon and his vicars had exceeded their rights. Under these conditions, Metropolitan Platon risked being completely alone. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. Please add those! - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 16:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I want to add this: "Bishop (Archbishop since 1923) Aftimios Ofiesh was ordained a vicar bishop in 1917 for Arab parishes within the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America (a single diocese at that time). He did not speak Russian and he did not understand neither the problems of Russian emigration, nor the arguments put forward by the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia to justify their position. Archbishop Aftimios advocated the independence of the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America. Subsequently, it was largely because of him relations between the Synod in Sremski Karlovci and Metropolitan Platon in New York began to develop extremely unsuccessfully". ~ Чръный человек (talk) 09:46, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Would it be more preferable for the exhaustive information to be added into the article, Aftimios Ofiesh, so as to not confuse the readers? - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

It is necessary to explain why he took up the creation of THEOCACNA. Perhaps it should be described in other words? ~ Чръный человек (talk) 07:39, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Definitely, and hmmm. Any suggestions? - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 19:45, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I told about the words "Bishop (Archbishop since 1923) Aftimios Ofiesh was ordained ...". I meant that maybe they need to be corrected somehow? ~ Чръный человек (talk) 19:54, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I believe the text encased as "(Archbishop since 1923)" should be removed, as it would be unnecessary. - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 01:05, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

"suspected"?

"... Ofiesh suspected autocephaly and jurisdiction over the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America ...." What does 'suspected' mean here? is it a mistake for something else? --2607:FEA8:FF01:4B63:204B:D8F4:EC61:DAE4 (talk) 12:38, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

IOBE

Saludos: en una edición anterior del mismo articulo, que hablaba sobre aquellos que se adjudicaban ser herederos o descendientes de la AOCC, se mencionaba la Iglesia Ortodoxa Bielorrusa Eslava en el Extranjero. Lo cual es cierto, ya que fue su fundador consagrado por WOlodymir (Walter Myron Propheta) en 1965. Eso se borro, junto con otros grupos mas. Ahora se puso una organización que lejos esta de ser una iglesia ortodoxa. VladykaTeofano2024 (talk) 18:02, 5 January 2024 (UTC)