Talk:Amen (Meek Mill song)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Amen (Meek Mill song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Yolo4A4Lo (talk · contribs) 10:14, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I will review this. I have started but give me a day or two to finish it. So far it looks good on Copyvio. I'm still reviewing the article, but I think this part needs to be addressed first while I continue with the rest:

Quick review

• The Background section confuses me because it's not written chronologically. I would like to know: when Wane came up with it; why and when he gave it to Mill; when Mill sent it to Drake and why he chose him; why Drake became a fan of the song; what is the difference when the song was released before the mixtape and as the album's lead single? the platform?
• I think the part about Mill and Drake focus too much on their relationship after the song rather than giving us any insight on why Drake was involved. I think the only things of note are: they became friends afterwards, their second collab, which happened in the same year they had a fallout afterwards.

•  Done --K. Peake 20:49, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I can see it more clearly now. We can divide it into three paragraphs:

1. Conception by Key Wane, so from "American record producer" to "He then met Mill"

2. Conception by Mill, so: "Mill remembered" to Drake sent it back, followed by the song's initial credits, then "Mill and Drake's collaboration on "Amen" marked their first involvement with each other" until "fallout".

3. Song's initial release, from "In January 2012" to "both having vocals".

Also question, what's the difference between the release on May 2012 and when it was released as the album's lead single? Was it only available on SoundCloud? If yes, it should be stated. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 08:46, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

So, I think this subsection needs a little rewrite and cleanup. Re-sort the sentences so they flow better. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 15:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done for all, mentioning it was via SoundCloud! --K. Peake 07:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

In-depth review

Sorry, it took so long

• Yolo4A4Lo I have completed everything now, thanks for reviewing and care to take a read through? --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
  • I have personal matters over the weekend. I'll try to post the final read through on Monday GMT+7. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 11:37, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• Yolo4A4Lo I have gone over all of the points you raised this time, outside of altering refs 39 and 42 with archives and removed links since this cannot be done when they are for a template. --K. Peake 10:50, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• Congratulations. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 11:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Add short description, disambiguation link, Template:Use American English, and Template:Use mdy dates, per MOS:LEADELEMENTS

•  Done apart from the disambiguation link; I'm not sure how this is needed. --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• Add alt text to cover image
• According to page statistics, the article has 12,500 characters. So, it should have "one or two paragraphs" as Lead, per MOS:LEADLENGTH, so I suggest to reduce the lead. You could merge two lines mentioning interpolations and cut music video description, for example.

• I think mentioning the interpolation is redundant. I suggest to change the line "Due to the embodiment of the Doobie Brothers' work written by Lester Abrams and Michael McDonald" → "Due to the interpolation of the Doobie Brothers' "Minute by Minute" written by Lester Abrams and Michael McDonald". So, the last sentence can be shortened into " A hip hop number with pop and R&B elements, the song relies on a gospel beat, with lyrics focused on sexual exploitation and wealth." - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• "Jomo K. Johnson" → "Philadelphia reverend Jomo K. Johnson". Readers who only read the lead wouldn't know he's a reverend.

•  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "with him debating Mill over this point. He eventually" → "leading the two having a public debate on radio Hot 107.9. Mill eventually"

•  Partly done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "the Club Paradise Tour" → "Drake's Club Paradise Tour"
• Wikilink The Fillmore

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Background

• Wikilink "record producer"

•  Not done per MOS:OVERLINK

• "The song went through several alterations at a Los Angeles studio and Mill identified it as an example of him 'set[ting] up a hit', through hearing the beat and crafting it 'into what I want to make it into'" → comma after "studio"
• "Mill wrote "Amen" to thank God for the best things in his life and Drake was instantly a fan when he sent him the song, before the musician quickly sent it back." → "Mill wrote "Amen" to thank God for the best things in his life. Drake became a fan upon receiving the song and quickly sending it back to Mill."

•  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• I still don't get the numerous releases. So, "Amen" has been released in January 2012? But why does it say it's "premiered" in May? What's the correct one? If it's the later, the first sentence should be removed to not cause confusion.

•  Comment: this sentence sources the recording date and I have re-worded to avoid confusion about it being released in January; the song did premiere in May. --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "It first appeared on Dreamchasers 2 three days later, before being released as a single for Dreams and Nightmares in June 2012." → "It was then included on Mill's ninth mixtape, Dreamchasers 2, released three days later, before being released as the lead single for Dreams and Nightmares in June 2012."

•  Partly done I don't need to re-introduce the mixtape --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Composition and lyrics

• There should be [sic] after "innn"

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Release and reception

• Change to Release and critical reception
• "Mill's debut studio album Dreams and Nightmares on October 30" → " Mill's debut studio album, Dreams and Nightmares, on October 30"
• "and said Mill abandons his previous style on the mixtape's "early highlight"" → "and said that "Amen" saw Mill abandoned his previous style"
• "He observed "a gospel-clapping, organ-greased cookout beat"" → "He described the song as "a gospel-clapping, organ-greased cookout beat""
• "Pitchfork's Jayson Greene picked the song as the best new track on May 8, 2012, said Mill abandons his previous style on the mixtape's "early highlight". He observed "a gospel-clapping, organ-greased cookout beat", which would be usual for fellow rapper Kanye West making jokes over, while Mill "sounds like a cocky young rap star" on his first song that is more like a victory lap than a wind sprint." → Pitchfork's Jayson Greene picked the song as the best new track on May 8, 2012. He said that "Amen" finds Mill abandoning his previous style and "sound[ing] like a cocky young rap star". Greene described the song as "a gospel-clapping, organ-greased cookout beat", which would be usual for fellow rapper Kanye West making jokes over, while Mill's first song that "sounds more like a victory lap than a wind sprint"."
• "West's 2004 debut album The College Dropout," comma after "album"

•  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "where he is victorious" → "where Mill is victorious" for clarity

•  Partly done changed to "the rapper" to avoid overusing his name --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "proving why Mill "raps with such an impassioned sense of urgency". → I prefer the original wording. "which explains why Mill "raps with such an impassioned sense of urgency""

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• A little typo there :) -- Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• "Writing for Rolling Stone, Jody Rosen highlighted that he "cleverly tweaks sex-rap clichés"" → "Writing for Rolling Stone, Jody Rosen highlighted that Mill "cleverly tweak[ed] sex-rap clichés""

•  Partly done kept as tweaks since the song still exists now --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "writing that he uses "his high-energy flow" to go through the pop and R&B styles" → "writing that Mill used "his high-energy flow" to go through the pop and R&B styles"
• "Mill utilizes his charisma to create "breez[y] material, like the backyard-barbecue anthem" that is "a sunny, lighthearted" number supported by the prominent organ" → "Mill utilized his charisma to create a "breez[y] material, like the backyard-barbecue anthem" that is "a sunny, lighthearted" number, supported by the prominent organ"
• "For Billboard, Erika Ramirez wrote that he still "toy[s] with his abundance of riches" on the "summer hit"" → "For Billboard, Erika Ramirez wrote that Mill still "toy[ed] with his abundance of riches" on the "summer hit""
• "In 2017, Michael Saponara from the same publication ranked "Amen" as Mill's sixth best song and said that he "collided [with Drake] on the churchy ... track", while also praising Jeremih's angelic backing vocals." →"In 2017, Michael Saponara from the same publication ranked "Amen" as Mill's sixth best song and said that he "collided [with Drake] on the churchy [...] track", while also praising Jeremih's angelic backing vocals."
• "PopMatters editor Matthew Fiander considered the song one of the album's "safe choices", believing that it "would be a revelation here" if not already included on Dreamchasers 2." → "PopMatters editor Matthew Fiander considered the song one of the album's "safe choices", believing that it "would [have been] a revelation" if not already included on Dreamchasers 2."

Controversy

• Please point out in the paragraph that the reverend came from Mill's hometown. It makes his comment more notable.
• "with him seemingly". Change to "Mill" for clarity

•  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "Johnson also encouraged Christians that are rap fans across his city to boycott the rapper if he does not acknowledge "this blatant disrespect"" → "Johnson also encouraged Christian rap fans across his city to boycott the rapper until he did not acknowledge "this blatant disrespect""

•  Partly done didn't change the Christian rap part since this may confuse readers with the genre of the same name --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• I'm sorry I made a typo there. It should be "until he acknowledged" - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• "he may have helped him in other situations" → "might"
• "BET's show 106 & Park" → "BET's music show 106 & Park"
• "that he is not bothered if a rapper does not value a word or know the meaning" → "was not bothered"
• "Lecrae compared the situation to a "blind person bumping into you", clarifying that one shows them where to sit rather than becoming angry and his interest is fully set in helping people understand terms" → "Lecrae compared the situation to being mad at a "blind person bumping into you", clarifying that one shows them where to sit rather than becoming angry and his interest was fully set in helping people understand terms"
• "there is a possibility" → "there was a possibility"

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Commercial performance

• For charts, separate into Commercial performance. Put it after Controversy.
• "The song later peaked at number 57 on the Hot 100 and by October 23, it had sold 330,000 downloads." Change comma to semicolon.
• Please make sure all numbers mentioned have followed MOS:NUMERAL and be consistent.
• "On July 22, 2015, "Amen" was certified gold" → "received Gold certification". Keep the wikilink.

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• "Gold" still needs to start with capital since it's a name, not a literal gold. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Music video and promotion

• "Mill leaves his bed to get dressed and the rest of his crew do the same". Comma after "dressed"
• "which adds cameos from opening rap acts such as J. Cole, Waka Flocka Flame, and French Montana" → "which adds cameos from the opening rap acts, such as J. Cole, Waka Flocka Flame, and French Montana"
• Wikilink "Fillmore"
• "Drake's appearance shocked the crowd with excitement and before the performance, Mill shouted" Comma after "excitement.

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Credits and personnel

• Wikilink "songwriter" and "mixer" at first mention

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Image and caption

• "who he later became close friends with." → "whom he later became close friends with."
• For Drake in 2011.jpg, add description he's closing his eyes in the alt

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

References

• Please archive refs that aren't archived yet

• Ref 5, 9, 16, 19, 21, 39, 42 haven't been archived. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• Use Template:Cite interview for ref 1, 41.
• Ref 15, should be Prefixmag based on the website

•  Done for the above --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• The source link isn't consistent. I'd say just link everything. Repeated links are okay on refs.

•  Not done it is consistent in them only being linked once and changing this is a pointless task really --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

• Unlink Billboard on Ref 39 and 42 for consistency. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

• After everything is done, please resort all the refs on the article by the number, e.g. "both having vocals.[4][2][11]" should be " both having vocals.[2][4][11]"

•  Done --K. Peake 09:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Final

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   Several spelling problems I missed: "publically" → "publicly", "offence" → "offense" for American spelling (also on Controversy).

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

   Just need several points left above to be addressed

(Criteria marked are unassessed)