Talk:Ambrose Phillipps De Lisle

Untitled

This account of his assumption of "De Lisle" cannot be correct. --Wetman (talk) 22:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Identification of Ducarel grandfather

There are issues around the Ducarel side of the ancestry, not least that Harriet Ducarel's father is given as "John Gustavus Ducarel", of Walford, Somerset by the History of Parliament [1]. The Huguenot background, alluded to by the Catholic Encyclopedia, can resolve that, if the full francophone baptismal name was such as Jean-Gérard Gustavus Ducarel, read in an anglophone way as John Gustavus, and in a common French way as Gérard Gustavus.

There is adequate evidence that this is Gerard Gustavus Ducarel (1745–1800) who is in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, an East India Company civil servant. He had a relationship with an Indian woman, Bibi Mirza (c.1758–1822) later known as Elizabeth, which produced six children. It is assumed in the ODNB that she was a Christian convert from Islam, and that "probably" they married, though not before starting the family.

Gerard retired to Exmouth and had a son Philip Gustavus Ducarel.[2] Philip's dates are 1778–1855, he was a poet, and he was living in Somerset before moving away in 1813 (or 1812 per the previous reference). [3]

One report [4] of Harriet's 1807 marriage is as the "youngest daughter of Mrs. Ducarel of Walford House". Another is as the "youngest sister of Philip Ducarel, Esq., of Walford-House" [5].

Based on these reports, consist if we ignore spelling, Harriet Ducarel can be taken as the daughter of Gerard Gustavus Ducarel and Elizabeth Mirza. There is no particular reason to be surprised that the Indian mother was not mentioned as such.

There is further possible confusion, in that thepeerage.com makes Harriet's father "Gustavus Ducarel, Marquis de Chateaunuy". [6] Burke explains in a footnote [7] that the Huguenot Ducarels claimed an ancient title as "Marquesses of Chateaunuis". One can at least suggest that this noble connection was a deflection from the Indian one.

To sum up, there is plenty of evidence that Harriet's father was the East India Company Ducarel, and that her mother was therefore Bibi Mirza. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:40, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

By the way, all six children are listed here, though the mother's name is given differently. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:30, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Russlart?

"the Primate of the Russlart Church" should this be Russian? an error of a scanning program? --142.163.195.153 (talk) 14:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)