Talk:Alva Belmont/Archives/2014

Untitled

I restored the previous edit regarding Alva's childhood, not only because it is an interesting anecdote, but because her childhood certainly did influence her later values and opinions, contrary to the comment of the editor who removed it. Certainly no objective editor would oppose adding an amusing and illustrative contribution to the article.

Father's Occupation

Are we certain Alva's father was a "cotton planter" prior to the Civil War? It's been some time since I've read about the Vanderbilts, but I seem to remember that he was described as a cotton trader or merchant in other sources. Alva did have a reputation for inflating her family's social credentials. Hellokitty3 20:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Expanding article

Alva's father was a trader. Also, she was one of the few suffrage activists of her time (this was the height of Social Darwinism) to work with black women and include them in CU activities. Her racism did exist, but not to the point where she let it prevent the suffrage cause. I am in the process of expanding details on her contributions.

I agree. While she certainly harbored racist views (not wanting to marry her daughter to non-Anglo-Saxon nobility, etc.), they were certainly not as virulent and oppressive as previous authors of this article would have them. They were most likely the typical attitudes prevalent at the time.

I would like to see sources for quotes. That's why I cut them. Exactly who were "the historians" for example. ZsoltanZ 01:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Believed blacks were inferior

Removed "Raised in the South, she believed blacks were inferior", which had been tagged as lacking citation since October 2007. Also removed as a violation of WP:NPOV. This may very have been true, but to include it with no evidence( Though the statement does seem to suggest that being raised in the South automatically made her a racist) seems to be pushing an agenda of its own. Did she document her beliefs anywhere? That would prove it. If not, one would have to quote what other people in her own time wrote of her or what has been researched by scholars and published. She was judged harshly by her own contemporaries for many things, but I don't recall overt racism being one of them. Altairisfar^talk 21:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Added infobox

I added an infobox with a photo from the LOC. Altairisfar^talk 22:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Have also added 3 more photos: Her childhood home, their residence on 5th Avenue, and a sketch of Consuelo. This article is sorely lacking in inline citations. Will try to come back to this soon and add ref to wht can be confirmed. Did some rearranging and rephrasing of first two sections. Also removed the "Social Titles" section as superfluous, one can read the article to see what her married names were. Altairisfar^talk 10:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Updated article with more information and cited sources with inline citations. Altairisfar^talk 07:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

If interested, I have an 1895 photo of Belcourt which I believe I can upload. Alva's work at Belcourt was considered to be architecturally significant and she is well known not only for her suffragist activities but also for her architectural endeavours. Charles 09:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be a great addition to the article. Altairisfar^talk 09:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I am trying to find Frank H. Child's death date to see if the copyright is over. If I can't, I think it may be fair-use as a representation of Belcourt in Alva's time. Charles 09:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be covered under Template:PD-US since the work was published? Altairisfar^talk 09:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Seems that it would be! I have uploaded it, here it is: Image:Belcourt1895.jpg. Charles 09:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Page title

I have to question why the title of her page calls her "Alva Belmont" when her second marriage was a relatively minor part of her life. She spent all her younger years as "Mrs. Vanderbilt," including having a daughter, Consuelo Vanderbilt, who was famous in her own right. In fact, one could argue that the principal reason Alva became famous, especially to later generations, was because of her daughter. I would recommend this page be retitled "Alva Vanderbilt". Anyone have any comment about this? --Michael K Smith^Talk 13:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I find the assertion that she is primarily known today due to her daughter to be an erroneous analysis. The naming convention dictates that the article be at the name by which the person is best known. That is debatable, but the current name seems to have some advantage over simply "Alva Vanderbilt." She was a Smith for 22, a Vanderbilt for 20, and a Belmont for 38 years. She had her children by, but then divorced Vanderbilt. All of her suffragette and humanitarian work was done under the Belmont name, after she was widowed by O.H.P. Belmont. She died and was buried as a Belmont. I suppose, however, that both surnames could possibly be used if there is some agreement to it. It may be similar to the situation at Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, although not for exactly the same reasons since she was widowed on both occasions. Altairisfar (talk) 05:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)