Talk:Alliance of Independent Social Democrats

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SNSD and EU

SNSD-led government of Zeljka Cvijanovic and president Dodik supports Eu integration, here there are a lot of sources:

Please stop edit war. You tube is not a source.

Here Dodik said not all Muslims are terrorist, so there isn't anti-islamism in SNSD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serb1914 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Talk

Here are some more sources of Dodik's opposition to not only EU, but the West in general: ^[1] ^[2]

He even publicly supported the Russian annexation of Crimea ^[3] and met with Vladimir Putin in a very sensitive time period (Crimea crisis) ^[4]

All of his policies are generally pro-Russian and anti-Western, everyone knows that.

Dodik's views are also anti-Islamic. For example, here: ^[5] he talks about a "clash of civilizations" between the Christian and the Muslim world. He explicitly states how the European Union should be Christian and should not accept majority-Muslim countries into it. He is also islamophobic, as he states that there are numerous camps of mujahideen and Islamic radicals across Bosnia (half of which were confirmed not to ever have existed). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.146.166.149 (talk) 21:37, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not only Dodik says that in Bosnia are present islamic radicals, also the current vice-president of FBiH Mirsad Kebo (he is Muslim and Bosniak, so can't be an islamophobe) is saying this fact. (Kebo vecernji.hr) So, if a person call to fight islamic radicalism this is not islamophobia. Dodik is not "anti-Western", he and his government (like the government of Serbia) supports both EU integration and good relationships with Russia, but not NATO (because of military neutrality).--Serb1914 (talk) 16:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Talk

Please don't cite Mirsad Kebo, he is saying this because he got kicked out of SDA (the ruling Bosniak party) and wants to get revenge. If his claims were true, why didn't he say anything for 20 years, but started to talk nonsense now? You didn't comment on the "clash of civilizations" Dodik keeps talking about. Of course Dodik won't publicly oppose the EU, no politician publicly opposes his rivals, but acts nice and polite, that is politics, after all. His pro-Russian orientation is so obvious though, that everyone knows it. Ask any Bosnian Serb if Dodik is pro-Russian or pro-EU and they will tell you the same. Even they admit it. Dodik is a politician so he has to try being discrete and not too obvious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk • contribs) 23:32, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

Sourced (?!) informations

User:The Destroyer Of Nyr, you asked me, why do I remove "sourced" informations. The reason is simple - they aren't sourced. You misused the sources. Do you expect from readers who do not know Serbo-Croatian to check weather the sources say what you claim they say?

Let' start.

You claim that part'y ideology is islamophobia. The source you used - [1] - doesn't mention word islamophobia at all (Serbo-Croatian for islamophobia is - islamofobija or исламофобија).

The sentence you added - "The party's leader, Milorad Dodik also publicly denied the existence of Bosnia and Herzegovina several times." - is not supported by the source used ([2]) at all. First of all - he didn't denied the existance of Bosnia and Herzegovina. I'm near native speaker of the Serbo-Croatian, and I can tell when the source has been misused, like in this case. Dodik said - "Bosnia and Herzegovina isn't a state", therefore, he didn't denied the existnance of Bosnia and Herzegovina, he challenged its status as a state. Second - your sentence says he denied existance of Bosnia and Herzegovina "several times" - a claim not supported by this source at all.

You also added this sentence - "n 2014, Dodik said that a clash of civilizations was inevitable, claiming that "There is no place for muslims in Europe". Let's look what the article actually says.

In that context, one of Dodik's close advisors reminded me how Pope John Paul II once insisted that European Union should be Christian - he said that especially when one of the EU candidates was Turkey. Thus, the Pope - according to the opinion of my correspondent - wanted to say that Muslims do not belong in the European Union

Therefore - those aren't Dodik's words at all. As you are a native speaker of Serbo-Croatian, as I assume, you were pretty much aware of this, and still, you misused the source.

Also, he didn't say that "a clash of civilisations was inevitable", what he said is - "We, the Serbs and Croats belong to a one common civilisation. Even though some speak that clash of civilisations today doesn't exist anymore. That's reality." Not once he said that clash of civilisation was inevitable. [3]

And you also added this sentence - "He also claimed that the existence of Eastern Orthodox Christianity on Bosnian territory proves the existence of the Serb people.". No, again, he didn't say that. He said that the "Church and Orthodoxy are the best evidence of the Serbian identity". He isn't wrong - religion was indeed a main identity of South Slavic peoples. Serbs were the Orthodox, Croats were Catholics and Bosniaks were Muslims. [4]

And this is why I removed your "sourced" informations - they aren't sourced at all! --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 23:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, all informations are sourced indeed. I can correct a few words that seem to be off, perhaps, but the main message his speech carries is absolutely clear and without doubt. Rephrasing a word or two doesn't change the basic message in context. Still, I will look to correct that word or two. Also, it seems hypocritical that you are talking about reliable sources, when you post broken links and authors of literature without even mentioning the name of the book, texts that cannot even be checked for being correctly interpreted or not. The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 23:41, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No they aren't. You clearly misused the source. Remove those informations, or otherwise, I'll ask for opinion of other native Serbo-Croatian users who will clearly say what is writen in these articles you used as a source. --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 23:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 23:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's not fixed. Dodik hadn't mention Pope John Paul, not even once. His advisor mentioned the Pope talking with a jounralist. Also he didn't say that clash of civilisations was inevitable. He said that Serbs and Croats belong to one common civilisation, and Bosnian Muslims to another, which he called a "reality". --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 00:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong, read the sources again. The only thing which might be rephrased could be that the clash of civilizations was "a reality" instead of "inevitable". The rest stands, the journalist was talking about Dodik's views in those parts where Dodik was not speaking himself. And also; Bosniaks, not Bosnian Muslims. The latter phrase is not used anymore officially by one legal institution in the world. The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 00:06, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear God... "U tom kontekstu, jedan od Dodikovih bliskih suradnika podsjetio me kako je papa Ivan Pavao II. svojedobno inzistirao na tome da Europska unija treba biti kršćanska - a to je osobito govorio kada je jedan od kandidata za ulazak u EU bila Turska. Time je Papa - prema mišljenju mog sugovornika - htio reći da muslimanima nije mjesto u Europskoj uniji." What does this means to you? Are you thinking that everyone around you is stupid or what?

Obviously, I know what that means. The journalist even accented that Dodik agrees with John Paul II's statement. Perhaps you might need to learn the language, in this case Croatian? The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 00:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He agrees?! Really? Where?! --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 00:18, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Time je Papa - prema mišljenju mog sugovornika - htio reći da muslimanima nije mjesto u Europskoj uniji. There. If you want, I can add some other parts of the article that might help you decipher Dodik's primary message? The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 00:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Read

So you really think I'm stupid... His correspondent - was Dodik's advisor! Dodik's advisor interprets what the Pope wanted to say... he didn't say he agrees or disagrees damn it! --Yerevani Axjik (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/svijet/dodik-protiv-eu-integracija-izvrijedjao-ivanica---367322.html

[2] ttp://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/svijet/milorad-dodik-optuzuje-veleposlanstvo-sad-u-bih-za-urotu---353927.html

[3] ttp://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/politika/993341-dodik-krim-legalno-kosovo-nelegalno

[4] ttp://www.pogled.ba/clanak/dodik-kod-putina-financijska-pomoc-rusije-republici-srpskoj/55315

[5] ttp://www.jutarnji.hr/-pomoci-cu-hrvatima-da-dobiju-svoju-drzavu--u-bih-i-da-se-odcijepe-/1225072/

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