Talk:All Hope Is Gone (song)

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Songs

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Metal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of heavy metal music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MetalWikipedia:WikiProject MetalTemplate:WikiProject MetalHeavy Metal articles

Release date

On the Amazon music downloads, it says that All Hope is Gone will be released on June 20th, not the 24th, could someone please change... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 555thenim666 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you go to the Amazon page [http://www.amazon.com/All-Hope-Gone-Album-Version/dp/B001B1JI1E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1213542498&sr=8-2] you will see a green box on the right which says "This song will be available on June 24, 2008". REZTER ^TALK ø 09:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the article, it talks about a free download on the 20th, where did you find that out, I an see no reference on roadrunner/slipknot websites —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.82.216 (talk) 11:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you had looked in the "References" section you would have found this: [1], the countdown thing on their website now is counting down to the free download. REZTER ^TALK ø 11:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Genre wars...

The genre has been subject to tons of changes over the past few days, and I don't think it's slowing down. Does anyone have a source for the genre? I'll add a messege, but what should it be listed as? Amazon lists it as Heavy Rock/Metal, so I'll keep it like that until we find another source. Black ngold29 19:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They pretty much just say that because they don't exactly catagorize things very specifically, however, That's still a good idea Bloodfall (talk) 20:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi man, yeah. You are right, Slipknot has been subject to one of the largest genre debates in modern rock. But let me say that after listening to this new song, along with watching the 9.0 Live recently (heard those blast beats and down-tuned guitars?) I've got to say... Slipknot is no longer a fake metal band. Sure it has some elements, but it's now musically nearer to the thrash/death territory than to the alternative metal one - It can't be called NU metal anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.43.38.168 (talk) 18:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The song's genre has got to be metalcore86.147.105.160 (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion is worthless on an encyclopaedia (I'm sorry for it to sound so harsh but it's true). Wikipedia relies upon sources for all it's information and you can't just declare the song a different genre because you believe so... hell you may be 100% right but it's classed as original research. REZTER ^TALK ø 16:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's not heavy metal, straight heavy metal is like Iron Maiden or Judas Priest. And Amazon is a rubbish source. It's like how Allmusic.com lists Nightwish as symphonic BLACK metal and Kamelot as death/black metal. We don't have to rely on sources, we can listen to the song itself and tell it is not normal heavy metal because of the fast drumming and screamed vocals. It sounds pretty metalcore. Seriphyn (talk) 13:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, if you plan on writing a good article per WP policy, it is recomended to have reliable sources for everything. If you don't consider this song heavy metal, then find a source that says it isn't, or one that calls it something else. Personal opinions matter not. Black ngold29 16:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Males have penises [CITATION NEEDED] and females have vagines [CITATION NEEDED]. The sky is blue [CITATION NEEDED]. According to this article, this song is in the same style of Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath and the like. Very encyclopediac Seriphyn (talk) 12:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're against WP:V? If you think the song is a certain genre, then find a source to back it up. Nobody's opinion matters on WP, only sources. Black ngold29 16:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blackngold29, please take a look at Nightwish's talk page, under the entry titled "Genres" Seriphyn (talk) 12:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm unsure what you mean. Nightwish is a very diverse band, probably as if not more diverse than Slipknot. They have a lot of genres, and they all have sources. For this song we have a source that says "Heavy Metal". If you have another source that claims different, feel free to add that genre and cite it. I'm not saying we can only use Metal. Black ngold29 03:56, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What I mean is that there is a genre dispute there but there are no sources on the ones currently there, but there is a universal agreement on "symphonic metal" and "power metal" just because of the styles you can listen to. At the same time, you can listen to "All Hope is Gone" and attribute it without a source. They did it on the Nightwish article... Seriphyn (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I ask for a source because if you go through Slipknot's material they could be classified under about 20 different genres. I think that we should only include the most obvious / souced ones. Black ngold29 21:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Until you can find a good source i recommend listing it under "metal" Jakisbak (talk) 21:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Heavy metal" is "metal". I'm not sure if LastFM is reliable, I would doubt it. But the Amazon one remains. Black ngold29 22:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of them are. I only say "metal" because a lot of people think of "heavy metal" as stuff like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest...all the old stuff. "metal" seems more modern. Although i guess both are correct there aren't really any good sources i can find for it.... Jakisbak (talk) 22:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I beleive this is hardcore or death metal but, unfortunatley, that goes against wikipedia's guidelines.Bloodfall (talk) 15:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I beleive it would be safe to say Nu-metal, since it is not a darastic change of their previous albums.Bloodfall (talk) 00:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe and am pretty damn sure that this is more alternative metal, or thrash metal. I'd even call it alternative thrash. By no means is thing song or any song off All Hope Is Gone nu metal. Synsun (talk) 1:19 PM, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Will somebody please change the genre to metalcore, I cant because I dont have an account. Some moron keeps changing it to Alternative Metal and Heavy Metal when it obviously is not. 86.136.212.210 (talk) 23:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The 'morons' who keep changing it are abiding by Wiki's guidelines. If you don't have a reliable source to back up your claims that the genre is metalcore, it stays as it is. Don't like it? Tough. GeneralAtrocity (talk) 09:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thats besides the point branding all hope is gone as Alt Metal and Heavy Metal is complete lie whenever I listen to the song it feels just like a metalcore. So wether abiding to wikipedias guidlines is compulsory or not wikipedia should say only what is true. 86.136.212.210 (talk) 18:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In other words, make it up as we go along? Sorry matey, but it doesn't work like that. Wiki is not a place for original research (read it for yourself), only what is verifiable by reliable sources (again, read it for yourself). Them's the rules, and as I said before, if you don't like it that's tough. GeneralAtrocity (talk) 19:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I think the source we have that only refers to this single is Amazon's "Heavy Metal". That was added to the hidden messege about changing the genre, but of course it was ignored, changed, and deleted. I would prefer to use something refering to the single and not the whole ablum, but in the name of RS, if none can be found we'll have to make it match All Hope Is Gone (album). Black ngold29 12:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I could have sworn Amazon also listed it as Alternative metal. Seems I was wrong though. Anyway, I agree, since nobody seems to be able to find a reliable source for the genre, we might as well just keep it matched to the album. GeneralAtrocity (talk) 12:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, my bad [http://www.amazon.com/All-Hope-Is-Gone/dp/B001B1JI1E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1219780683&sr=8-3 Amazon states] "Hard Rock & Metal/General, Rock/General". I'd really like to find a better source though. Black ngold29 19:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's Nu MEtal, it's just abunch of super-fast stuff

so look through those kinds of genres —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.164.59 (talk) 22:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lol @ the guy who said this is "hardcore". This is nu-metalish alternative metal (metal?) to me- or something like that. metalcore has more in common with melodic death metal. Hope somebody get a real source, cuz this is not traditional heavy metal. --Kmaster (talk) 02:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why about groove metal? It's already present in others single's articles from All Hope Is Gone, and sounds pretty much like. MetalBrasil (talk) 17:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like a straight up thrash metal song to me. I mean c'mon, with the fast, shredded guitars & the rapid-fire drumming & vocals, it's pretty obvious that it's a thrash song. That's why I changed it to thrash metal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raven273 (talk • contribs) 17:20, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This song is just a combination of melodic hardcore (not metalcore) and death metal, it's not "thrash", the tremelo picking and blast beats are far too fast, and the shouted vocals are not thrash. 68.174.140.135 (talk) 01:12, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Genres on Wikipedia come from music critics assigning a genre to the song. They don't come from listening to the song and analyzing its parts. WP:SECONDARY sources are what you want. Binksternet (talk) 01:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not a single (yet)

According to the news post on Slipknot1.com (and the bands myspace) the first single will be "Psychosocial", so until this is announced as a single I think we should just keep the article as "the title track" article and we could possibly move it to "All Hope Is Gone (single)" if it eventually emerges as one. REZTER ^TALK ø 15:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The song has entered the UK singles charts, doesn't that declare it a "single"? It is only available for digital download but I still think it should now be declared a single. Of course this would contradict the band saying "Psychosocial" is the first single. REZTER ^TALK ø 12:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Organized Genre Discussion

Somebody has put "death metal" into the genre section, and I have not removed it because it says we must discuss it first. Whether it is, is obviously debatable. I would be inclined to say it is not. This new album, as well as the second album of Slipknot, have gone past "nu-metal" and entered the heavy metal domain, though I believe The Subliminal Verses and the debut would fall under the alt/nu/rap metal category. This album, however, I think "heavy metal" is the most suitable tag for the album alone, though this song could be tagged as death metal (or melodic death metal). The drumming in this song is fast enough to be considered a blast beat or something similar to drumming in death metal, and though the vocals are really an imitation of death metal. Real death metal vocals are usually a lot harder to understand, though the vocals done by the backing vocalists as well as Corey Taylor in the chorus are death metal vocals. The riffing is fast and chaotic enough to be tagged as melodic death metal. So that is what I think it should be labelled as. JazzlineB (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Video

Does anyone know anyhting about a possible video? —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Holmes II (talk • contribs) 19:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt there will be a video. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.234.231 (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Genres

Let's do it.

Heavy metal?

Nu metal?

definitely not, and any source which calls All Hope Is Gone this way don't deserve reliability. It's like calling Iron Maiden of death metal, or Cannibal Corpse of power metal. There's not influences of nu metal in that song. Examine it:

Blast beats
Growling, no melodic vocals.
Downtuned guitars
Extreme metal riffs MetalBrasil (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You cannot dismiss a source simply because you do not like its interpretation. They've done music like this for years, and the consensus across albums such as Slipknot and Iowa is that it's nu metal. Although I would personally disagree with your above examination of the song, it's irrelevant anyway: it's not up to us to analyse a song and determine its genre, it's up to us to find the secondary sources that label the band and the song. – Richard BB 12:42, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see where you wanna come. Just because a band follow one genre for some albums, so it have to follow that one forever? There was a consensus in All Hope Is Gone (album) page of not putting Nu metal, so it's clearly wrong in that song (BTW, the heaviest of whole CD). MetalBrasil (talk) 19:13, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My point was that this song sounds a lot like their first two albums, which are agreed to be nu metal. But let's forget about that -- that's still my interpretation. The point is that the citation is what's important, and the citation defines them as nu metal. Even if the rest of the album isn't, this song at least is. – Richard BB 19:51, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death metal?

It seens overdone/exaggerated to me. Do Not support. MetalBrasil (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Melodic death metal?

DOn't think so, no sources at all, doesn't have that style. No keyboards or the classical melodeath growling. MetalBrasil (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Groove metal?

I agree with that. The riff is groovy-based, thrash-derivated, but with funk vocals (growling funk, BTW), and with a pinch of death metal source. Any song of Chimaira sounds like ALl Hope Is Gone style. MetalBrasil (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deathcore?

No breakdowns. MetalBrasil (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No. Just no. Jesus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.96.60.192 (talk) 00:30, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nu metal?

Rateyourmusic.com is NOT a reliable source. Besides, if you look up Mudvayne's genre on there, it will say "Nu metal". But yet, there is a consensus against that label for Mudvayne, besides it's on the edit page for Mudvayne on wikipedia. I'm taking it off for now, when a source comes, it can be there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.214.78 (talk) 22:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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