Talk:Alex Carey (writer)

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Australia: Literature Low‑importance

	Australia portal Alex Carey (writer) is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian literature (assessed as Low-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Death

There are several references to his untimely death in the article but no details. My understanding is that it was suicide. I understand that this is a touchy subject, but it should be mentioned.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:42, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have since added the information, but someone has now pedantically edited to remove reference to him losing money. So why mention the stock market crash...???--Jack Upland (talk) 22:04, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The edit may strike someone as "pedantic", but it seems to be perfectly in line with Wikipedia policy on reliability of sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOURCES#Reliable_sources

The source is Alex Burns (published in "REVelation magazine") who is attributing the claim to one Gerald Henderson: "Gerald Henderson had led the way by revealing that Chomsky's colleague Alex Carey, to whom Manufacturing Consent was dedicated to, was a closet capitalist who committed suicide after the Wall Street crash of 1987." This appears to be a "questionable source" (according to Wikipedia standards), as there is no reason at all to think that "REVelation magazine" has "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" - to say nothing of how questionable Alex Burns himself or his "source" (Gerald Henderson) is. I myself am inclined to remove the reference altogether. --Poluphemos (talk) 01:02, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the reference to the Alex Burns article, maily becasue there is a more direct and more reliable source available, namely Gabrielle Carey's biographical In My Father's House. The Burns article is unreliable in any case, for the reasons I explained above, and also because his own source (Gerald Henderson) could hardly "reveal" the facts of a matter concerning which his own family could only speculate. Poluphemos (talk) 21:29, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Death

I have specified Carey's date of death as 30 November 1987, based on Gabrielle Carey's account on pages 152-159 and 180 of her In My Father's House. Her account, however, makes me wonder whether 1922 is right year for his birth, since she implies on page 221 that 1 December 1987 was to be his "sixty-fourth birthday", which would mean that he was born in 1923. The only other credible source for his date of birth is the World War Two Nominal Roll website, http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=816524 , which says 1 December 1922. The Collection Record Details on the State Library of New South Wales website do say he was "aged 64" at his death; but if that is a round figure, then it may not in reality conflict with G. Carey's account. Poluphemos (talk) 21:50, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: The WWII Nominal Roll isn't the "only" other credible source for his date of birth. 1922 is also given as his birth year in Ian Edwards (ed.), A Humanist View, Angus & Robertson Ltd 1969, p. 12 (though no day of birth is specified). Poluphemos (talk) 01:18, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I reread Gabrielle Carey's biographical novel In My Father's House and found a reference to his age that confirms his birthdate as 1922. On page 261 she quotes a newspaper article that describes Alex Carey as being sixty-four years old and also mentions his "most recent publication" as the opening chapter of Ken Coghill's The New Right's Australian Fantasy, which was published in 1987. I think that Gabrielle's Carey's mention of his "sixty-fourth birthday" on page 221 (which I cited above) must be due to a typo, or else I just misinterpreted it. In any case, 1 December 1987 would have been Alex Carey's sixty-fifth birthday, as all the other evidence implies. Poluphemos (talk) 00:40, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pilger

Why does the Pilger comment need to be removed?--Jack Upland (talk) 05:12, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Znet is a fringe non-mainstream website which is not a reliable source.. Comparing the obscure Carey to a major figure like Orwell is obviously absurd, so using John Pilger's profile as a basis for advocating its inclusion does not do much for Alex Carey's memory either. Philip Cross (talk) 05:13, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since you seem to accept that Pilger did say that, you don't have a valid reason to remove it.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:32, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is a glib, throwaway comment at the beginning of an article. John Pilger is an often tendentious, essentially tabloid journalist, with a rather mixed reputation. Although Pilger might sometimes be a reliable source, his comments need to be used in Wikipedia with caution. The only other admiring comments about Carey comes from a book by Chomsky and Herman. Manufacturing Consent is dismissed by the mainstream, or totally ignored, and in Herman has a co-author with particularly insanitary opinions, and a decidedly frinnge reputation. This rather backs up my suspicion that Pilger's comparison of Carey with Orwell is ridiculous. Philip Cross (talk) 07:58, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Philip Cross is clearly letting his own bias govern his editing of the article. While Znet may be considered not a reliable source, the same piece by Pilger was simultaneously published in the New Statesman, hardly a "fringe" source. (This is now reflected in my most recent edit of the article.) Furthermore, Philip Cross's removal of the Pilger quote wasn't in accordance with NPOV guidelines: "As a general rule, do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely on the grounds that it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone." Indeed, the required "neutral tone" was already sufficiently achieved by the original content, insofar as it explicitly presented the description as Pilger's own, not as objective fact. As the NPOV guidelines note, "Biased information can usually be balanced with material cited to other sources to produce a more neutral perspective…" So Philip Cross is perfectly welcome to cite "other sources" if he really wishes "to produce a more neutral perspective", rather than simply delete legitimate content already provided by other contributors. Poluphemos (talk) 00:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Alex Carey (writer). —usernamekiran(talk) 20:53, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Carey → Alex Carey (psychologist) – With Alex Carey (cricketer) now playing in the national team, this person is no longer the primary topic, and Alex Carey should be a disambiguation page. (I am not arguing that the cricketer is the primary topic; that might take a few more years of playing at the highest level.) St Anselm (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. Neither the psychologist nor the cricketer are of sufficient world renown to qualify for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In consulting WP:TWODABS, we find that "where no topic is primary, the disambiguation page is placed at the base name". —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 02:49, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per nom. And as the cricketer is gaining more coverage, it makes it easier to spot incorrect incoming links with a dab page. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:51, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This Alex Carey has lasting fame, considering he died in 1987. I doubt the cricketer will be remembered when he stops playing sport. In any case, I oppose calling him Alex Carey (psychologist) because he wasn't famous as a psychologist. He was famous as a political writer.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:24, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with Alex Carey (writer). St Anselm (talk) 18:50, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support Alex Carey (writer). —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:27, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.