Talk:Alcek

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When? This has no dates. RJFJR 04:28, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Time Dates?

This article is nonsense, How on earth could these Bulgars have settled near ravenna when Ravenna was still Byzantine in th 7th centuary?? Ravenna was conquered by Longobards in the 8th centuary. Also, didnt these Bulgars settle in what is today the Basilicata? which is south of Naples. This article doesnt make much sense.

- The lands south of the Danube were also byzantine, but the Bulgars did settle there, didn't they! ;) Ivan Marinov (talk) 22:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgar settlement in Italy

I do agree that the article in its present state does not make much sense. I will have to make some research and put it in order. Internedko 09:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgar settlement in Italy - sources

According to ЗЛАТАРСКИ, История на българската държава през средните векове. Том 1, част 1, Епоха на хуно-българското надмощие - ZLATARSKI(History of the Bulgarian State in the Middle Ages. Part I, The Huno-Bulgarian dominance 679-852), Sofia, 1994 [1918], p. 118-120, the migrants-refugees are said to have settled in Italy (in marca Vinedorum) around or after 631 (Fredegarii Scholastici Chronica). This story, according to Zlatarski, is a late addition to the source. According to another source (Pauli Historia Lanobardorum), which is considered nearer to the time the historical fact occurred, the arrival of the Bulgars in Italy took place some time after 663. The Bulgars were, apparently, settled in Sepinum, Bovianum and Iserniam and other at the time uninhabited lands. The historian sites the following sources: Fredegarii Scholastici Chronica, lib IV, p. 72 in Mon. Germ. Hist. Scriptores rerum Merovingicarum, t. II. Hannoverae, 1888, p. 157.; Marquart, Die alttürk. Inschr. S. 86; Pauli Historia Lanobardorum, lib. V, p. 29 in Mon. Ger. hist Scriptores, Bethmann et Waitz(eds), 1878, p. 154. Ivan Marinov 11:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alzekos of the bulgars

These facts exist. It is written by Paul the Diakon and the chronichs of Fredegar.However i agree that the dates might be wrong. It is stated at 668 when Alcek moovedm out from Panonia, but it is know that Kubrats 5 sons, among wich is Alcek, mooved from Fanagoria after the Kubrats deat on 671. Every brother led his own group; Kuber in macedonian basin and so known Kermesian basin, Asparukh to south of Danuabe,Baian joined Khzars khagante, Alciok went to Avars and joned them and the last brother founded Volga Bulgaria in todays Tatarstan. So chronicly Alcek might went to Ravena in begining or middle of 8th century. All depends on the translation of the source which i didnt read in original. Even the name of the frankish king might be wrong but 2 indipendant autors writhe for these fact the separation, moovment, franks, and the settle in ravena. You can read it yourself also here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutrigurs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 11:49, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

This article needs to be renamed in accordance with the most common English names so that people can actually find some scholarly works on the topic IN ENGLISH. His English name is AlZeco and he is NOT identifiable with Alciocus who deserves his own article. Some idiot has been attacking virtually all Bulgar related articles with similar crackpot false synthesis ideas. I would like to encourage editors to get together for a huge reference cross-check of all such related articles and then some protections added to them. 92.40.249.164 (talk) 08:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For User:Jingiby [1] Enjoy reading. 92.40.249.164 (talk) 08:24, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Jingiby you broke the 3 revert rule

Sorry, but I do not understand why did you delete the sources and the information confirming the identity of both historical figures! Also why were the different ways of spelling of the Alcec's name deleted. Also why do you write AlZeco with capital letter in the middle. Regards. Jingiby (talk) 08:38, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's OK bro, I'm not vicious and I won't hold it against you. Facts and correct reporting are more important to me than using wiki rules to unfairly bash good intentions of other good quality wiki editors like you.

I have a deep concern that there is a lot of very bad OR and Synthesis as well as misusing and misquoting sources in many articles relating to so-called "Turkish" tribes in Europe and especially badly affected are articles related to Bulgars. I removed the other names because u wan to force whoever put them in to cite sources.

I have included your sources.

I spell AlZeco instead of Alzeco because the original source is Arabic meaning we should probably just cal him Zeco. But Alciocus is no an Arabic source. 92.40.249.164 (talk) 09:04, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possible identity of both figures

Alzeco might be Identified with the Bulgar leader Alciocus of the Fredegar chronicle. Source 1: Istvan Zimonyi, Muslim Sources on the Magyars in the Second Half of the 9th Century. BRILL, 2015, ISBN 9004306110, p. 257.; Source 2: The Cambridge Medieval History Series volumes 1-5, Plantagenet Publishing.; Source 3: Panos Sophoulis, Byzantium and Bulgaria, 775-831, Volume 16 of East Central and Eastern Europe in the Middle Ages, 450-1450, BRILL, 2011, ISBN 9004206957 p. 108. Please, check the sources. Jingiby (talk) 08:58, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is terrible scholarship isn't it? How on earth could they miss the vast geographic and significant chronological gaps! Nevertheless I have included a section at the bottom of the article to mention such buffoons. Please add any more such moronic researchers into that section. Thank you for your continued and appreciated good input.92.40.249.164 (talk) 09:07, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure Acagir (Alzeco/Alciocus) or Agacir (Akatzir) was obviously the name of a Pannonian nation not a person. But, that is original research and can not go in the article. 92.40.249.164 (talk) 12:04, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]