Talk:Albedo (Xenosaga)

"Partner"

Okay, I always thought that the line "Well, there you have it. Good news, huh? Partner." at the end of EpII was spoken by Albedo, but a user edited the article claiming that Virgil said it. I thought the line sounded like Albedo, and I remember hearing people saying that the White Testament's voice sounded like Albedo. How would people know that if he never spoke?~~Cyfin 23:02, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. I edited the article. I decided to just exclude the whole "partner" line altogether. The user did add helpful info though, the "weaver of the eternal circle of Zarathustra". I kept that in there.~~Cyfin 23:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Questions

Alright, so, I'm going to ask three questions:

1. Should I put up detailed descriptions of Albedo's part in the anime (I could make what I already have more in-depth) and, when it comes out, Xenosaga I&II, or should I just leave the two of them out completely, as they're based on Episode I and Episode II?

2. Does it make sense if I, and other people if they want, post information on what he does in the trailers, assuming he'll be in future ones, under the "Testament" heading, and then just delete that whole section once Episode III comes out? My original plan was to delete the Testament heading and, in its place, write a detailed summary of his part of Episode III as I did for the others, and only have a description of the three episodes. Just making sure people are okay with that.

3. Would it make sense to put in a "bio" section, and maybe explain his past a bit before all the Episode categories? It just struck me that I never even explained what a U.R.T.V. is in this article...

Sorry if I seem so hyped about this article, and if I seem like I'm being a perfectionist with it, but I truly want to make it the best I can do. I'm going to be clinging to it for a long time, probably. Mwahahahaha! *cue the evil music*

I can't wait to write the Episode III Albedo section....or the I&II, if it's necessary...Heh... Cyfin 03:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

That's all good information, though I'd say omit the speculation. We can save that for the Wikicites when I get it completely transwikied this weekend. Deckiller 03:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Speculation? You mean the trailer info? Agreed...So it's alright to post a bio and an anime description for now? I'll get right on that, probably tomorrow morning... Cyfin 03:49, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds great. Deckiller 03:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

As another random comment (ahhh, drive-by commentary ahoy!) on the storyline significance of things--I don't believe that Albedo was necessarily being deceitful with respect to his reasons for provoking Rubedo into killing him. We have no evidence that becoming a Testament is something one chooses voluntarily; certainly Pied Piper indicates that there isn't a lot of choice on Voyager's part as to what is done to him after his death. Take that as you may, but I'd say anything that directly correlates Albedo's motive for getting himself killed with the opportunity to ascend to the position of Testament is likely speculation, not fact. 66.27.127.173 08:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, death is needed to become a Testament, and it was said that Jr. is the only one who can kill him. It's pretty obvious he wanted to become a Testament, he even worked with them. While I suppose it is speculation, it seems enough evidence is given in the game to back it up. If Albedo wanted to die so that he wouldn't be alone, the reason that the game provided, why would he let Wilhelm turn him into a Testament to live even longer? Cyfin 07:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Like I said: he may not have had the option otherwise. We don't know about Kevin and Virgil's "interviews" to become Testaments, but we did see Voyager's in Pied Piper--Wilhelm gives him absolutely no option on doing anything other than becoming a Testament. See:

Voyager: ...I have no choice... do I.

Wilhelm: ...I’m so glad to have your cooperation.

From Xenosaga: Pied Piper, Chapter 3, section 15, available [1] from Zarathustra Steig Allein. Wilhelm dragoons Voyager into it--I can see him doing the same thing to Albedo, especially given Albedo is the "Weaver of the Eternal Circle", which--from Pied Piper's epilogue, we're led to understand Wilhelm has been waiting for for a long time. So while it's one possible intepretation that Albedo wanted Rubedo to kill him in order to become a Testament, it's certainly not the only one, nor is it necessarily contradictory that he wanted to die in order to avoid losing those he cared about but ended up returning as a Testament. It may not have been a case of "let" so much as "was forced". That's why I'm saying that, until and unless Also sprach Zarathustra explains the exact conditions of Albedo's becoming a Testament, any speculations on his reasoning are just that. Coronaviridae 03:48, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. I'll edit it out. Cyfin 10:52, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Piasora or Piazzola?

There seem to be two translations for Albedo's last name. Deckiller 04:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it was moved to Piazzola? I guess I don't mind that, but I could swear "Piasora" was the English version of it. I read it SOMEWHERE, maybe it was just inaccurate. Cyfin 23:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

This article wasn't moved to Piazzola, it was redirected. Basically, I think we need to research and discuss what form to use for all things related to Albedo, including article titles, list entries, wikilinks, regular prose text, and so on. As long as we use the same last name consistently, I'm fine.

On the other hand, we have to make sure we use the correct english version, since this is the english Wikipedia. That's just my two cents, though. This is similar to the Aeris/Aerith debate. Deckiller 04:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah...I guess we should research further...I think it's Piasora, I guess I could be wrong... Cyfin 04:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I FOUND IT!!! In Episode I, if you check the UMN terms list thing, Albedo's info says "Piasora" as his last name. It wasn't a site I saw it at, it was the GAME. Cyfin 05:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

In the official website, is says "Piazzola." Go to "About the Game" and then "Characters." ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 05:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

That's weird...I just checked the encyclopedia in the game, and it said Piasora... Cyfin 05:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It probably changed with the new team of developers. (Dang developers… There would have been five episodes, too.) ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 05:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we should move this to Albedo (Xenosaga), have a brief mention of the two names, and just go by the term "Albedo" in lieu of including both the first and last names, until we get concrete proof. Deckiller 05:10, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 05:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Sorry if I'm being a bother. Cyfin 05:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's no problem. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 05:15, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but I've done some research on the topic, being rather fond of Albedo. It's "Piazzolla" (note the two ll's) most properly, though "Piasora" is arguably the more elegant English rendering and the form used in the Episode I databank. Astor Piazzolla is an Argentinian composer of considerable repute; when his last name is transliterated phonetically into Japanese, we get the rendering ピアソラ. Phonetically back to English from the katakana, that gives us "Piasora". The Xenosaga Episode II artbook, which contains character profiles (though it is lamentably not as thorough as the Official Design Materials would be), gives the above kana for Albedo's last name, but also gives the proper Roman spelling "Piazzolla", as of the composer. The artbook's ISBN is 4-8402-29287; the full title is Xenosaga Episode II [Jenseits von Gut und Bose] The Complete Graphics. (Note also I am far from proficient in Japanese--I sight-copied the kana directly from the artbook.) Cheers! 66.27.127.173 08:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the info. Cyfin 07:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Article creation

I believe that some of the major antagonists do deserve their own article (probably some time from now, once the list prose is polished and fixed in some spots), but there is also the janitorial matter of fixing links and merging the list entry with this entry to create encyclopedic information. If this is making sense, we should hold a discussion on this. Deckiller 04:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I only made an article on Albedo because I thought he was a very well-developed character, and deserved his own article. Krelian, Miang, and Ramsus of Xenogears have their own articles, so I felt Albedo deserved one. Cyfin 04:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You are most likely right. Entries on, say, Wilhelm, Albedo, and even the testaments have enough information to warrent their own article, though I feel that it is important to wait until after the third (and supposedly final) episode is complete, so we have a sense of conclusion (and no speculation/loose ends) before creating the articles. There's no harm in starting this one now though, because we can place a "main article" notice in the list entry for Albedo. Deckiller 04:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

That thought had actually come to my mind, but I figured, Albedo died at the end of episode II. There's always a slight CHANCE that he's NOT the White Testament. If he really isn't, then I have all of his appearances covered. I agree Wilhelm and the Testaments shouldn't have an article yet, but only because we haven't seen them enough times to even get a semi-conclusion of what happens to them. Cyfin 04:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

If Albedo is to have his own article, it should be at Albedo (Xenosaga), where it was before it was merged into List of antagonists in Xenosaga. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 04:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Good point; that way, if there are changes in naming in the future, no moves have to be made. Deckiller 05:00, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good. Cyfin 05:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Personality?

This article is a good summary of Albedo's actions throughout the different pieces of the series, but it lacks a lot of other information on the character. Should it be reconciled with the set-up for other character pages in the series? I'm looking at Jr. and Shion's profiles especially. I don't want to step on Cyfin's toes here, since he's done a great job of summarizing things, but I am considering editting it to reconcile it with the way the other profiles are set up. Coronaviridae 20:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind either way, although I would really like it if character data is included. — Deckiller 20:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Will do. I'm not quite sure where to start, but I'll get on it ASAP. Coronaviridae 03:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of doing the same thing myself. Feel free to add it, I don't mind. Cyfin 10:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Albedo (Hyperion Cantos)

It might be of interest when mentionning the origins of the name, to note that a character named Albedo appears in the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons. He is known as "Counsellor Albedo", being an artificial intelligence sent by the technoCenter (the group of ultra-intelligent AIs that parted with humanity centuries before the books), and personnifies himself as a man with silvery-white hair, perfectly trimmed hands and hair, grey suit, and perfectly controlled behavior. I think this is a bit too much to be just a coincidence, and should be mentioned. I'm not sure which one was first, but that one should be mentioned as influence of the other.

it is not the only link between Xenosaga and Hyperion (hyperions ends, like xenosaga ii, by the murder of the pope of a revived christian religion, and involves a female half human half android messianic figure. Does someone have any info on inspiration by the xenosaga authors drawn from these books?

the end of xenosaga iii is also a lot like the end of the fall of hyperion

That's really interesting. And I'm pretty sure the Hyperion cantos predate Xenosaga considerably; albeit you may need a stronger link than "these two characters are named similarly" to point definitively at influence. It could just be parallel thinking (there's a lot that's similar between Xenosaga and the Coheed & Cambria Amory Wars opus, but I'm pretty sure that's not a sign of influence so much as coincidence). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.25.216.194 (talk) 05:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Albinism

Removed the link to the fictional albinos category. Albedo really isn't albino so much as exotically colored. Someone may want to add a link to the fictional twins category (which I'm pretty sure exists; I've seen it), however. Coronaviridae 05:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Albedo 71.jpg

Image:Albedo 71.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Albedo Testament2.jpg

Image:Albedo Testament2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)