Talk:Albanian revolt of 1910

Endorsement from the Albanian deputies in the revolt

A note can be made in the article for the endorsement to the revolt given by Ismail Qemali and especially Nexhip Draga in the Ottoman Parliament and the rejection of these deputies of the martial law. Aigest, can you please find a source for that? --Sulmuesi (talk) 16:13, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll try to find them. Meanwhile I think the title is correct, it is the most used term for the uprise in literature and although it is not mentioned in the article fights took place even in Lume region (see Frasheri 1984). Aigest (talk) 08:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Poorly written

What cities were attacked, what cities were entered and what cities were captured?

Text of the article is poorly written and confusing to the readers who can be mislead about who controlled what cities and when. There is a list of cities (Prishtina, Ferizaj, Prizren, Gjakova, Shkoder, Shkup, Peje, Diber,....) that were attacked, entered or captured by Ottoman army or Albanian rebels, but it is unclear if Albanian rebels ever captured any of the cities or not. Readers could be mislead to believe that Albanian rebels captured all those cities and then Ottoman army had to “take possesion of Prizren and Gjakova”, “enter Shkoder”, “capture Peje”, “went to Shkup” that were “attacked in Prishtina and Ferizaj”... If Albanian rebels managed to capture any of those cities, that should be clearly written what cities they managed to capture. It is especially valid for Shkoder that was extremely important town and stronghold for any party in conflict, and if Albanian rebels managed to capture it, it should be described in separate subtitle. If they did not manage to capture all towns on the list (or any town like it is written on the very end of the text), text should be rewritten in order not to mislead readers.

Lead section does not describe events properly

“New centralization policies” that, according to text, inspired revolt remained absolutely not described. Why would they inspire only Albanians to revolt, and not people of other ethnicity, and why only Albanians on Kosovo ...... If new taxes were introduced in 1910, why there were revolts before 1910, even before Young Turks revolution that happened in 1908, .... --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Factually inacurate and not verifyable

Text is factually inacurate. “new centralization policies of the Young Turk Ottoman government in Albania.” This is part of first sentence that contain inacurate facts. There was no Young Turk Ottoman government in Albania from three reasons. First, Ottoman government was not organized on geographical principle, but on administrative (vilayets), that did not correspond to geographical region. Second, Albania is linked not to Albania as toponym but Albania as country, that did not exist in 1910. Finally, it is obvious that revolt took part only on Kosovo which has nothing to do with Albania as toponym or state.

Info box give figures of 3.000 rebels and 16.000 soldiers of Ottoman army. But if 3.000 ambushed the train under control of one leader, where was another leader Isa Boletini and how many rebels he had under control to control other territories? In the text it is written that Ottoman army gathered 50.000 soldiers, which does not correspond with number in info box.

Info box describes location as Northern Albania, but there is no described revolt in Albania at all. Only on Kosovo. If there was no revolt in Albania, then article is mistakenly categorized in History of Albania.

Lede is without any reference, and informations can not be veryfied. There are no inline citations. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Please look carefully at the link to the Wiki article "Young Turks" - it is not meant to be read as one 3-word 'subject' - as such, the lede is fine as-is in this respect.50.111.49.156 (talk) 16:44, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Not broad in its coverage

Circumstances that led to the rebels are poorly described. What were in fact demands of the rebels? What about their armour, is it true that government of Kingdom of Serbia, Kingdom of Montenegro and Italy provided arms for rebels? What was reaction of other countries that were interested for the region? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Not properly illustrated

Readers that are not very well acquainted with geography (most of English speakers does not know much about toponyms used in text) would need a map of the region with marked territory that was under control of rebels. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Albanian Revolt of 1910/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I think that article does not meet requested criteria for good article. But since this is my first review, I asked for second opinion.

Poorly written

What cities were attacked, what cities were entered and what cities were captured?

Text of the article is poorly written and confusing to the readers who can be mislead about who controlled what cities and when. There is a list of cities (Prishtina, Ferizaj, Prizren, Gjakova, Shkoder, Shkup, Peje, Diber,....) that were attacked, entered or captured by Ottoman army or Albanian rebels, but it is unclear if Albanian rebels ever captured any of the cities or not. Readers could be mislead to believe that Albanian rebels captured all those cities and then Ottoman army had to “take possesion of Prizren and Gjakova”, “enter Shkoder”, “capture Peje”, “went to Shkup” that were “attacked in Prishtina and Ferizaj”... If Albanian rebels managed to capture any of those cities, that should be clearly written what cities they managed to capture. It is especially valid for Shkoder that was extremely important town and stronghold for any party in conflict, and if Albanian rebels managed to capture it, it should be described in separate subtitle. If they did not manage to capture all towns on the list (or any town like it is written on the very end of the text), text should be rewritten in order not to mislead readers.

Lead section does not describe events properly

“New centralization policies” that, according to text, inspired revolt remained absolutely not described. Why would they inspire only Albanians to revolt, and not people of other ethnicity, and why only Albanians on Kosovo ...... If new taxes were introduced in 1910, why there were revolts before 1910, even before Young Turks revolution that happened in 1908, ....

Factually inacurate and not verifyable

Text is factually inacurate. “new centralization policies of the Young Turk Ottoman government in Albania.” This is part of first sentence that contain inacurate facts. There was no Young Turk Ottoman government in Albania from three reasons. First, Ottoman government was not organized on geographical principle, but on administrative (vilayets), that did not correspond to geographical region. Second, Albania is linked not to Albania as toponym but Albania as country, that did not exist in 1910. Finally, it is obvious that revolt took part only on Kosovo which has nothing to do with Albania as toponym or state.

Info box give figures of 3.000 rebels and 16.000 soldiers of Ottoman army. But if 3.000 ambushed the train under control of one leader, where was another leader Isa Boletini and how many rebels he had under control to control other territories? In the text it is written that Ottoman army gathered 50.000 soldiers, which does not correspond with number in info box.

Info box describes location as Northern Albania, but there is no described revolt in Albania at all. Only on Kosovo. If there was no revolt in Albania, then article is mistakenly categorized in History of Albania.

Lede is without any reference, and informations can not be veryfied. There are no inline citations.

Not broad in its coverage

Circumstances that led to the rebels are poorly described. What were in fact demands of the rebels? What about their armour, is it true that government of Kingdom of Serbia, Kingdom of Montenegro and Italy provided arms for rebels? What was reaction of other countries that were interested for the region?

Not properly illustrated

Readers that are not very well acquainted with geography (most of English speakers does not know much about toponyms used in text) would need a map of the region with marked territory that was under control of rebels.

Reviewer: Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:28, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

This is not FA. This is GA.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 23:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

This isn't FA, but the article still has significant issues. The reviewer makes at least one important observation that would more clearly expose some of the factual disagreement he is claiming concerning the geographic area in which the rebellion took place: the absence of any maps. I'm sure very few people know the geography of the Balkans well enough to understand where these events took place; the fact that they took place far enough in the past that relevant borders do not (necessarily) resemble modern ones makes it critical to include a map showing period geopolitical boundaries (including any relevant internal Ottoman boundaries). Geopolitical terms used in the article ought to be historical: if Albania or Kosovo did not exist then, only use it with a proper qualifier, like "present-day" or "modern". It sounds like most of the uprising took place in Kosovo Vilayet and Shkodër Vilayet; if this is the case, then those terms should be used to describe its location.

Since the reviewer mentions a lack of citation in the lead, I will disagree: per WP:LEADCITE it is not generally necessary to cite the lead (barring statements likely to be controversial), since it is assumed to summarize the article. In this case, the first sentence of the lead contains things that are not clearly elaborated in the body of the article: we don't know what "Young Turks" are (without clicking through), and neither the term nor its significance is explained in the article. Ditto the centralization policy.

Which leads me to the lack of background and depth, in which I agree with the reviewer. Was the unrest a direct result of the ascent to power of the Young Turks? How did Albanians feel about Ottoman rule before them? How long was the territory where this occurred under Ottoman rule? What was the centralization policy, and what made it unpopular? How many Ottoman troops were in the territory before events began? Where did the reinforcements come from? Did the rebels have external support? What kind, and from whom? Where there any larger diplomatic/geopolitical issues that influenced the decisions of external supporters?

There is a tendency to depersonalize both sides: we often don't know who the commanders of various forces are. If possible, unit (regimental and higher) identifications for army formations should be provided if they are known.

I recommend the article's editors look at an article like Irish Rebellion of 1798, which describes a rebellion that lasted about six months. While not without its flaws, it is somewhat richer in background and depth than this one is (and thus noticeably longer). I would expect an article of somewhat comparable detail for this event (understanding that sourcing, especially in English, may not be as rich here).

If I was reviewing this article, I would put it on hold, but I would be pessimistic that the editors could address the issues raised within even a two-week period. (I've been wrong on the latter in other reviews.) Magic♪piano 16:55, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Second Opinion

I have read this article objectively not knowing much about the Albanian revolt of 1910. A cover photo or illistration in the introduction would be good, if there is a photo that captures the Albanian revolt. Having a map of the Albanian area would be good as has been suggested. It would be good to cover briefly why the Albanians revolted i.e. nationalism and/or repression. I did not find the text poorly written, although, the narration can be improved. I was actually interested in reading the article and the narration kept my attention. The statistics should match what is in the article. The reference style is good and there seem to be valid resources to the article. The article could overlap the history of the Albanian people in order to have a broader context. Overall the article needs improvement but it is a good effort and start. Three questions can be answered are Where are the Albanian people in today's world?; Did they ever obtain independance?; Where are the Ottomans in today's world? My recommendation is improve the article then resubmit for GA.Cmguy777 (talk) 17:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Third Opinion

I do not think this is GA. The article is much too short. It needs more background (I feel that must have been far more grievances that just a new tax), actual fighting (so who controlled which settlements?), and aftermath (how did this all tie into the 1912 independence? how long did the ban on Albanian books last? what happened to the mountainous regions that Ottomans failed to control?). The prose is ok, but not great -- could use an advanced copyeditor. The article desperately needs a map. I also sense slight pro-Albanian POV. Most stunning is this sentence: "Albania became a wasteland for Albanian patriots, and the Albanian culture was fully oppressed." Renata (talk) 16:56, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Fourth Opinion

There are serious neutrality problems, with the article taking a partisan position in relation to its subject, "The Albanian culture and patriotism were thus severely repressed," (From lede) produces Albanian culture and Albanian patriotism as self-evident subjects. Try, instead, "Until 19XX Albanian cultural institutions were [concrete social relationship, ie "banned"], and expressions of patriotism for the Albanian nation were [concrete social relationship, ie "illegal, persecuted, etc"]." There are quality of writing problems, "Unable to repress their resistance, this column took another way to Shkodër, passing from the Pukë region." The article is not written in one of the major world Englishes (Indian, New Zealand, South African, Canadian, etc.); it needs to be written to meet the grammatical requirements of one of the major world Englishes. There are high order problems, including the absence of a causes / precursor context section, a discussion of the meanings of the revolt, and ideally a discussion of the historiography of the revolt. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:15, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Multiple people have now stated that this article does not meet GA criteria, and no further work has been done on the article, so i'm going to fail it. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 17:20, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

1908 choice of alphabet

A block of text about Congress of Manastir held in 1908 was boldly added to this article. Since this revolt had nothing to do with choice of alphabet used to write text in Albanian language, I removed it. If anybody has valid argument to support its inclusion please bring it first here.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 17:34, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

tagged for more references

Perhaps this will get dedicated editors on this subject to get this article into shape. Hopefully. 50.111.49.156 (talk) 16:49, 24 July 2021 (UTC)