Talk:Alan Moore (war artist)

Complete rewrite

This page has undergone a complete change. Ponits to me for trying I guess. Catmando999 Check out his talk page! 07:43, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Kudos for noticing the absence of an article for this notable and recently-deceased gentleman, and getting the work started. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:10, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I look forward to improving this article with you. Catmando999 Check out his talk page! 08:21, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Alan Moore (war artist)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mitch Ames (talk · contribs) 13:10, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

The article includes File:Holocaust horror, blind man walking through the Belsen concentration camp.jpg, which is copyright but does not appear to have an appropriate fair use rationale (according to its Licensing section). This may be cause for immediate failure. Could someone more knowledgeable on the copyright rules please clarify this.

Disclosure: I am a significant contributor to the article - although not including that image - so won't otherwise be reviewing the article for GA. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:10, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

The image has been removed until further information is brought forward. I created the article so I definitely won't be reviewing it. But I can vouch for the image, it's fair use because it has been published by the Australian War Memorial. Catmando999 Check out his talk page! 23:51, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The image has been added again. Catmando999 Check out his talk page! 02:51, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

And still has no fair use rationale listed. It looks like it should be straightforward to justify, but it needs to be done. "Because it has been published by..." is not a fair use rationale, and in any case the rationale needs to be included in the image metadata, not here. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:42, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this is a problematic review, since it was opened by someone ineligible to review the article, and the standard expectation for GAN is that the person who opens the review will be the one to close it. I'm going to put a request for a second opinion along with a note that the hope is for a new reviewer altogether. If that doesn't work within a couple of weeks, I'll put the nomination back into the pool of articles needing a reviewer. I suggest that, in the interim, the image file itself be given a proper fair use rationale, since the article nomination cannot pass without the file having one. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for being problematic. I was aware that I could not review the article (being a significant contributor) - my intent was to "comment" rather than "review". I did not think it appropriate to simply ignore what I believed to be a major non-compliance with the article. I'm quite happy to withdraw/strikeout my "review" if it helps.

Just in case something similar happens again in future, what would be the appropriate action for me to have taken in this case? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:06, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Mitch Ames, I don't think you were problematic—indeed, you were trying to help. (No need to strike anything; it's useful information for the eventual reviewer.) In future, I think that if you see shortcomings in an article you've worked on at the point that it's nominated by someone else, the best course is to post to the article's talk page with your concerns, since it's important that they be addressed. Then, when the GA review opens, you can draw the reviewer's attention to it on the review page—reviewers should check the talk page, but not all of them do—so said reviewer is aware of the issues you've noted. An example of this can be found on Talk:Hiranandani Gardens, Mumbai, where the comment was posted on November 2, about a week after the article was nominated but over a week before the review began on November 10. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:50, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I've been problematic. Catmando999 Check out his talk page! 06:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Closing comment

Because the review was opened by a contributor, and no one was willing to take it over despite a second opinion request that ran for a month, the nomination was returned to the GAN pool on January 1 to wait for a reviewer. This page is closed; at some point, a new reviewer will open the /GA2 page to start a fresh review. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Alan Moore (war artist)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 04:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Will take this one. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 04:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Lead

• Can we add 2-3 lines more here?

Not a must but would be appreciated. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 10:08, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• The facts in the lead must also have a mention in the main text, and the citations should typically remain only in the main text.

Which facts specifically do think are missing from the main text? The only thing not explicitly mentioned elsewhere is that he was best known for the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp images. But I can't see how to suitably put that "best known" elsewhere, without it seeming artificial. The two refs are explicitly for "best known", hence their inclusion in the lead, per WP:LEADCITE. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for the clarification. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Early life

• Who is J.S. Watkins? You need to introduce this person.

I suspect he's John Samuel Watkins [1][2], but the Moore references don't say any more than "JS Watkins". Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

We can not add random names. If it is highly probable that it could be him and no one else, you can use this description. If there is too much of doubt then perhaps this can be left as it is. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

It's not a "random name"; it's a name taken from three references. It would be nice if we could provide more information, but we can't yet without WP:SYN. Perhaps someone will find another reference that allows us to be more specific. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

During the war

• Who is Harold Herbert?

Probably Harold Brocklebank Herbert, another war artist, who was one of the judges that award a scholarship prize to Moore, but the Moore references don't tell us. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

We can not add random names. If it is highly probable that it could be him and no one else, you can use this description. If there is too much of doubt then perhaps this can be left as it is. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

It's not a "random name"; it's a name taken from a reliable source. As it turns out, a 2nd source says Herbert was also an artist. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Link tropical.

Done Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• World War II should be linked; it is the first mention in the main text.

Done Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• the Middle East, Italy, England and Germany Links?

I've linked to Mediterranean and Middle East theatre of World War II, but linking to just a country seems a bit too general, and I don't have enough info to link to more specific articles or sections for those countries. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, that should do. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

After the war

• After the war finished "finished" appears redundant
• He tried but failed to sell them --> He tried to sell them but failed
• soldiers, however it accepted --> soldiers; however, it accepted
• The War Memorial now When is "now"?

I've addressed the above (with different wording for "failed to sell") Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• The last few lines of this section may be merged into one para.

Disagree. The last 3 paras cover war memorial in Canberra, time in Europe, time in Swinburne (which is not in Europe!) - all separate topics. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I see. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Later life

• Link arthrtis

Done Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

• Where did we mention the 2nd and the 3rd marriages? We skip directly to the 3rd wife.

There's no mention in the refs of what happened to his 1st or 2nd wife, or when he married the 2nd and 3rd times, which makes it hard to include any details in the article. 2nd wife is mentioned but not named in [3], which also mentions "three happy marriages". (Strictly speaking "3rd wife Alison" is actually WP:SYN - he might have had a 4th unhappy marriage in the middle that nobody mentioned.) Mitch Ames (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

That should be all. Good luck! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 04:19, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

The issues have been resolved. In my opinion the article meets the GA criteria. I am happy to promote this. Thank you Mitch Ames Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 10:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)