Talk:Al Capp/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Al Capp. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Untitled

A great quote to insert would be from that of his character General Bullmoose, who stated "What's good for General Bullmoose is good for America!", parodying "What's good for General Motors is good for America." Rlquall 14:06, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Overlap with Li'l Abner

Seems like the content overlaps a bunch with the Li'l Abner article .

Adultery

Charged with attempted adultery! Since when is that illegal? My memory is that he was charged with sodomy. Tex 18:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The proper question isn't a “since when is?” but “when was?” Adultery used to be a criminal offense in most or all states; it might still be in one or two. —SlamDiego_←T 09:09, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Flipping through a book on Grace Kelly (Grace: The Secret Lives of a Princess by James Spada, page 42), Don Richardson, one of Grace's early acting instructors in New York (and one of her lovers) claimed that Al Capp tried to rape her during an audition for the part of Daisy Mae in a Li'l Abner Broadway musical [sometime between 1947 and 1949, I can't tell]. It also noted that the April 1971 charge was on three counts: adultery, sodomy, and indecent exposure. The latter two were dropped in a plea bargain. Ando228 (talk) 15:59, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Very dubious. For one thing, the Li'l Abner musical wasn't even written in 1949, much less being auditioned. Unless we are to believe the tryouts dragged on for 7 years - during which time the authors (Mercer and dePaul) were busy penning Seven Brides For Seven Brothers (1954) in Hollywood. Li'l Abner premiered on Broadway in 1956, years after Grace Kelly was internationally known.

In point of fact, Capp was never accused of rape or attempted rape during his lifetime. (Nor during Grace Kelly's lifetime, for that matter. She outlived him by several years, passing in 1982.) It smells suspiciously like a smear, especially since the accusation reared its head well after all firsthand parties were conveniently dead. Richardson (or Spada) also happens to be wrong about the 1971 charge. The actual stated offense was attempted adultery, not adultery. Legally, the distinction is a very real one, and a responsible writer would have known the difference.

I'm inclined to believe the persistence of this particular rumor may possibly be politically motivated. In either case, it is hereby challenged. Simply put: the more outlandish the accusation, the higher the burden of proof. Let's put aside the fact that a one-legged rapist is already a fairly outlandish proposition. Posthumous allegations of this nature - and secondhand ones at that - are hearsay by definition and, as the saying goes, not worth the paper they're printed on. As such, they have no place in a serious encyclopedia entry. We can do better. Let's keep it accurate, neutral and professional. —Rackinfrackin (talk) 12:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Capp sure seemed to create some lasting rage in his political period. It's a shame if that stuff continues to overshadow his genius as a comic artist and the amazing cultural importance and relevance he had in his heyday. (Surfer Joe (talk) 21:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC))

After viewing several television interviews of Al Capp, one can see why. His rageful pronouncements are utterly appalling, including that he wished to personally execute the wounded survivors of the Kent State shootings and that My Lai Massacres should be carried out by the U.S. military all over Vietnam in a systematic fashion. I honestly wonder if Capp was suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness during his later years. -- Flask (talk) 16:03, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Al Capp Time Cover.jpg

Image:Al Capp Time Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Keep it grammatical!

Wikipedia standards do not require a confusion between use and mention. If-and-when quotation marks are to be avoided, then instances of mention must be converted to instance of use. In the case of explaining that “Al Capp” was an adopted name, this is intrinsically not practical, so the quotation marks around the name per se are unavoidable. —SlamDiego_←T 05:16, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Pen names are not put in quotes. That's absurd. The quotes go. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

No, and your baldly declaring it to be absurd doesn't make it so. In the sentence in question, “Al Capp” is mentioned, not used. If you want the quotes to go, then you're going to somehow have to reconstruct things so that neither “Al Capp” nor “Alfred Gerald Caplin” is mentioned and yet we somehow make it plain that one means the same thing as another. If you feel the need for mediation, then go for it. (If anyone plays WP:3RR-invocation games, then I'll request mediation.) —SlamDiego_←T 18:59, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

So you would also say "Mark Twain", "George Eliot", "Jack Benny", "George Burns", "W.C. Fields", "Groucho" Marx, "Babe" Ruth, "Lou" Gehrig, etc.? No. That's early 20th century style. It's not done that way any more. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're missing the point entirely. It would be old-fashioned to write consistently “‘Mark Twain’ wrote Huckleberry Finn” but that's use. It's not grammatical to write “Samuel Clemens used the pen-name Mark Twain” because here “Mark Twain” is mentioned, and therefore should be in quotation marks (or italicized, though italics are more ambiguous). If you can pull off a way so saying that a man born with the name “Alfred Gerald Caplin” adopted the name “Al Capp”, without your engaging in mention of either name, then you can grammatically avoid quotation marks (and you'll quite surprise me). —SlamDiego_←T 20:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

"Better known as Al Capp" ... "Better known as Jack Benny" ... etc. If you've got a major issue with this, you had best take it up at a usage forum somewhere here. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:32, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Again, that is ungrammatical, because it treats mention as use. The fact that we can find a common lapse of grammar on Wikipedia isn't any different from the fact that we can find a common misspelling. Wikipedia doesn't have a usage rule anywhere saying that this bit of grammar is to be ignored, so I have no more need to take this to a usage forum on this than I do to fix “supercede” or “mandantory”. —SlamDiego_←T 22:46, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

BTW, if you took the matter to a usage forum, then you might be able to persuade them to adopt ungrammatical usage. Wikipedia being a democratic institution, people are often glad to enshrine common errors. But it would be a damned shame to further pervert this resource. —SlamDiego_←T 23:01, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

This seems absurdly esoteric. I'm almost tempted to believe you're kidding. Using quotation marks all over the only name he employed for the last (nearly) fifty years- the name he signed on legal documents- would be an example of "correcting" the language so that it becomes less clear. I'm not one for eroding English into slang just because use becomes common, but- respectfully- in this case you're actually battling (and I do mean battling) for something that would merely cause confusion.

If this is a real crisis, why not just add the useful phrase "hereafter referred to as 'Capp' or 'Al Capp'"? (I think he changed it legally anyway, as his wife and children also went by "Capp", though his siblings did not).

Are there any examples out there where "Babe Ruth" or "Mark Twain" are referred to in this way? Is it generally done? Should all of our Wikipedia handles be in quotation marks? Joe Suggs (talk) 12:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Stop arguing over minutiae. This extensive entry is among the best I've read. Congratulations to those who contributed. A beautiful piece of work. < I know. It's not a complete sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.233.248 (talk) 15:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

"Colonel Gilfeather" and Youngest Syndicated Cartoonist

According to 64.236.243.16: "I've found no refutation that Capp was the youngest syndicated cartoonist in the states at the time" [emphasis added]. The time in question was March 1932.

"At the time" is a rather meaningless claim, even if it were true. The veracity of this claim is questionable and not supported by any evidence; that is, reference sources.

Was there a younger syndicated cartoonist at another time? Was there a younger synidcated cartoonist in another country? No one knows, because apparently no one has ever compiled a list of syndicated cartoonists, their dates of birth, and the dates they became a syndicated cartoonist.

It is worth noting that the original claim of long-standing—probably started by Capp himself—was that Capp was 19 years old when he took over "Colonel Gilfeather" and, as such, was the youngest syndicated cartoonist in America [emphasis added]—presumably of all time, else who would care?!

One easily can find different versions of these claims, sans reference sources, scattered throughout the World Wide Web, as well as in several books.

For the record:

First, Capp was born on 28 September 1909, which means that he turned 19 years old on 28 September 1928.

Second, Dick Dorgan created "Colonel Gilfeather" for the Associated Press Feature Service in early 1930; the panel cartoon premiered as early as 19 March 1930.

Third, regardless of when he arrived in New York, Capp took over "Colonel Gilfeather" in March 1932, when he was 22 years old.

Therefore, Capp clearly was not 19 years old when he became a syndicated cartoonist. End of story; end of (original) claim.

Further, according to Robert C. Harvey, the biographer of Milton Caniff, the claim of "youngest syndicated cartoonist in America" has been made for several other early cartoonists. I have not been able to find any published work that even attempts to explore this question, much less settle it.

The only claim worth making is that of "youngest syndicated cartoonist." And not just in March 1932. For now, the jury is still out on who holds that particular record. I predict that it's not Al Capp—and I'm a fan of his work.

PlaysInPeoria (talk) 05:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Use of boldface for character names

I have reviewed WP:MOSBOLD and WP:BOLDTITLE and I cannot find any support for the practice used in this article of boldfacing character names.

Can anyone show where a Wikipedia Manual of Style says that this should be done?

Otherwise, I think that WP:MOSBOLD's general advice on boldfacing should prevail:

"Use boldface in the remainder of the article only for a few special uses:

Table headers
Definition lists (example: Proof)
Volume numbers of journal articles, in some bibliographic formats"

and the boldfacing should be removed. Ground Zero | t 11:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And since there has been no response to my query for a month, I have made these changes. Ground Zero | t 12:20, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

The unregistered editor who keeps reverting my edits should review Wikipedia:Manual of Style of which WP:BOLDFACE is a part. This style guide has been written by the Wikipedia community (not by me), and is intended to apply generally to Wikipedia articles. He/she should also review Wikipedia:No personal attacks, which explains why personal attacks (like calling me "anal" and a "clown", and asking who died and left me Queen) are not welcome in Wikipedia.

If he/she has valid reasons why my edits should not be made, they should be presented here for discussion. If I have to protect the page from the unregistered user imposing his/her desired style over the Wikipedia style, I'll do it, as much as I do not like protecting pages. Edit wars are a big waste of time. Ground Zero | t 17:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Quotes

Several sections start with very-pretty-looking but ultimately puffy quotes about the character. They misuse the {{cquote}} template (intended only for pull quotes) and serve only a "isn't this neat"/aesthetic purpose. I'm going to work on integrating them generally to the end of their respective sections; hopefully, those who better understand this subject can tweak placement without restoring the inappropriately used pull quote template. --EEMIV (talk) 15:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Good One!

Despite all the boilerplate pusilanimity at the head and foot of this talk page, this is a damn good article. Ortolan88 (talk) 00:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Booze?

In this article, we read that Capp was a teetotaler, and that Frank Sinatra always sent him champagne in restaurants. That's not impossible, but you'd think Frank would get a clue eventually.

Tex (talk) 21:56, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

That's one of the problems with the whole concept of Wikipedia. One editor writes something in an article, and in another part of the article, another editor writes something that contradicts it. But there's nobody who makes the whole article internally consistent.

Tex (talk) 15:52, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

NPOV dispute

Noticed some non-encyclopedic language (eg. "dirt poor" and "philosophically"), as well as judgements on character that are not fully explained in citation ("funny as it was") — particularly the Early Years section, but also throughout. No need to editorialize, perhaps just paring down these adverbs/metaphors will suffice. Great work on the article so far!

these are not NPOV issues (NPOV issue = disagreement regarding interpretation). Rjensen (talk) 21:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

The language is fine. when a person ruminates about the purpose of life we call that "philosophically" with no hint that he's an Aristotle. The term "dirt poor" is standard usage when describing one's own poverty, as in Growing Up Rich, Though Dirt Poor by Bruce Vaughan (2010), where "Vaughn remembers the good things life had to offer growing up in a small community in northwest Arkansas in the Depression." Rjensen (talk) 21:55, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Trouble archiving links on the article

Hello. I am finding myself repeatedly archiving links on this page. This usually happens when the archive doesn't recognize the archive to be good.

This could be because the link is either a redirect, or I am unknowingly archiving a dead link.Please check the following links to see if it's redirecting, or in anyway bad, and fix them, if possible.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2506&dat=19500511&id=DZZIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4AkNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4808,2345975

In any event this will be the only notification in regards to these links, and I will discontinue my attempts to archive the page.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Sources modified on Al Capp

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just attempted to maintain the sources on Al Capp. I managed to add archive links to 2 sources, out of the total 2 I modified, whiling tagging 0 as dead.

Please take a moment to review my changes to verify that the change is accurate and correct. If it isn't, please modify it accordingly and if necessary tag that source with {{cbignore}} to keep Cyberbot from modifying it any further. Alternatively, you can also add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page's sources altogether. Let other users know that you have reviewed my edit by leaving a comment on this post.

Below, I have included a list of modifications I've made:

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)