Talk:Aircraft registration

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Aviation: Aircraft

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Help

Dear colleagues! Please advise me about a registration of a business jet in Austria (OE-...)! Where I could find all info regarding this problem?

Thank you, Best regards,

Roman

Error

Registration suffix "5B" belongs to Cyprus. In the image, this suffix is attached to Crete, which is a Greek Island. The registration code for Greece is "SX".

G.

Thanks for pointing that out. It was a pretty stupid mistake on my side. I removed the 5B from Crete. PeepP 20:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Serbia-Montenegro

Does anybody knows if Serbia is still using YU-abc and if Montenegro has got their own? --Necessary Evil 16:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Serbia are still using YU, I dont think Montenegro have been allocated a prefix yet but the ITU may divide up the old Serbia & Montenegro allocation - so it may be one of the following: YT YU YZ 4N 4O my guess would be either 4N or 4O MilborneOne 20:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot. --Necessary Evil 17:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ITU has allocated 4O for Montenegro Requiem mn 13:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On further note, someone should update the map, as Serbia and Montenegro are still together on map and YU stands now only for Serbia, so they should be separated and 4O should go to Montenegro Requiem mn (talk) 11:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good point I have removed the map for now as you correctly say it is now wrong, it is also against NPOV and euro-centric to only show Europe and not other areas of the world. MilborneOne (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

East Timor

Aircraft registration for East Timor wanted! --Necessary Evil 16:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if has been used on any aircraft yet but the ITU assignment for East Timor/Timor-Leste is 4W MilborneOne 21:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. --Necessary Evil 17:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Logic of the system?

Is there any information about the very meaning of the aircraft registration codes? I mean some are quite obvious, SE (Sverige) for Sweden, D (Deutschland), F (France) for France and so on. But others, like N for the USA, OY for Denmark or 9A for Croatia seem to be without any meaning at all. How are new codes created? Why are some of them so absurd? Very few, even of the new ones, are the same as the ISO-codes or the internet domains. --Andhanq 13:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The only logic in the system is they are all based on radio callsigns allocated by the ITU. The single letter codes as you say are simply based on the country names but as the scheme expanded it was probably just pick a prefix group as they joined the ITU. Most countries have a range of prefix codes and can decide themselves which ones to use as aircraft callsigns/registrations.MilborneOne 19:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The USA is a large country that uses a single letter which is not its initial. Any info on why N was chosen for the USA? Q43 11:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that it stood for 'nited States. Ahunt 11:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect not, they just picked an available single letter - A, N, K, and W were the ITU allocations and they used K and W for radio stations and N for aircraft. MilborneOne 18:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am sure that you are correct - my comment was just to show that the aircraft registration system defies logic, although I have heard after-the-fact rationalizations for many of them. The designations are what they are are. Incidentally the USA has used additional letters in the past: NX was for experimental aircraft and NC was for commercial aircraft many years ago. Ahunt 22:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, N is not used for all US aircraft, rather privately owned aircraft (including commercial). Other groups use different prefixes, such as military registration numbers, as seen on the Wikipedia page United States military aircraft serials. As for why N was chosen for the US, it is said that the reason was that as countries needed ID numbers for aircraft, and since the US Navy had already used N internationally, this may have been the reason behind the use of N numbers in the US. Chicagotrains (talk) 06:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the lead to make it clear that aircraft registration refer to civil aircraft, so in this context all civil US aircraft use N. The use of N is probably based on the Navy use of N callsigns, nothing to do with military aircraft serial numbers. the other letters allocated were K and W which I understand where already used for broadcast stations. MilborneOne (talk) 11:53, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a historic reason why Mexico and Brasil have more than one code? 84.173.202.98 15:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the larger countries that have two letter combinations normally have a range of prefixes to choose from. Finland for example has OF, OG, OH, OI, and OJ but only uses OH for aircraft callsigns. I understand this is down to individual countries to decide. Some use certain combinations for amateur radio, another for commerical radio, some for marine, some for aeronautical no particular pattern from one country to the next. MilborneOne 20:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aircraft codes

There seems to be no logic at all to country civil aircraft codes. Except for some which are apparent and commonly used (like in EU countries - F for France, G for the UK, D for Germany etc)

For example, India is VT. I understand that this code was allocated when the country was under British rule way back in 1947. Obviously it hasn't changed since then. But if you look at the neighbouring countries the codes have no logic and no relation to "VT" nor their country names for eg. Sri Lanka is 4R, Pakistan is AP, Afghanistan is YA, Maldives is 8Q, Bangladesh is S2, Nepal is 9N, Bhutan is A5.......

Does anyone know if there's a method in this madness ?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sm777 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I thought I had answered this question above! in 'Logic of the System', if you read my answer above and still have further questions then please ask. Not sure why you think adjacent countries should have similar codes. The allocation is dependant on when they joined the ITU and they where then allocated whatever callsign blocks where not allocated. The early countries used single letters, then as civil aviation expanded they used double letter prefixes, when they ran out they started to use number/letter combinations.MilborneOne 23:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Andorra

Dear Author s of the european map!

in your map the code D2 is shown, as being from Andorra. I think it should be C3, bacause D2 is for Angola.

Eric

Esteemed maker of the map on this page. The code for Andorra appears to be incorrect as the table on this page notes a different prefix. Thank you. Starmanjr 04:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed just now that I forgot to answer here. I fixed the map on March 19. Thanks for pointing that error out. PeepP 21:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Palestine"

I'm removing "Palestine" (SU-Y) from the list since it's not listed in the FAA reference (SU is listed as allocated entirely to Egypt), and the provisional ITU Prefix for the Palestinian Authority is E4. -- uriber 13:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure the FAA reference is the authority for these allocations! The allocation SU-Y has been used recently by the egyptian authorities for aircraft used in Palestine, I presume because Palestine has no aviation infrastructure yet. For example a current Palestinian Airlines Fokker 50 aircraft is SU-YAI. I agree that E4 is the ITU allocation but it has not been used for aviation purposes yet.MilborneOne 20:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Codes Not Yet Used

As far as I can tell, the table does not include prefixes that haven't been used fro aviation purposes yet. Why not? Even a Note attached to the relevant ones could inform which haven't been used yet, only assigned. I think it's better than leaving out countries/regions. I am about to make the changes after writing this, feel free to revert. Opinions? Qaanaaq 05:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry you will have to explain - how do we know it has been assigned but not used for aviation purposes. The registrations come from the ITU callsign allocation for a country not all prefixes and combinations are used for aviation. This is a list of aircraft registrations, I would suggest that if an ITU prefix has not been used then it should not be on the list. As far as I know all used current prefixes are in the list. MilborneOne 23:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Milborne. I'm talking about assigned callsigns that have not been on an aircraft. I added East Timor's prefix despite the fact that above you said it hadn't been on any aircraft. Qaanaaq 05:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry still not clear 4W has been allocated by the ITU to East Timor as a radio callsign I dont think we should add it to the list of aircraft registrations until it is actually used. A lot of the radio callsign prefixes are not used for aircraft. I dont think for example we would add KAA-KAZ to the list as this is allocated to the United States but is used for Radio and Television Broadcast stations (example is KMTV). Perhaps the question should be can be cite a source that says 4W will be used for aircraft registrations in East Timor (most references relate to the former owner of the prefix North Yemen). If we cant find a reference then it should be removed. MilborneOne 14:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistencies between aircraft registrations and ITU allocations?

Germany uses a D- prefix but is only allocated a part of the D callsign series DAA-DRZ
Russia is assigned the entire R callsign series RAA-RZZ yet the Philippines are using RP- as the registration prefix for aircraft.
Swaziland is assigned the 3DA-3DM callsign series but uses 3D- as the registration prefix for aircraft.
The Republic of Fiji owns the rest of the 3D block, 3DN-3DZ and according to the ITU has no other allocations but uses DQ- as the prefix for aircraft. DQ again is part of the German block. It seems Germany isn't issuing suffixes starting with a Q to aircraft - maybe to avoid ambiguouities between D-QABC and DQ-ABC?

This list of inconsistencies isn't necessarily complete; it's just the ones I noticed. Can anybody explain this? Would a list be interesting enough to be part of some article?

See also the ITU's Table of International Call Sign Series

Ralf.Baechle (talk) 09:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Old postings but as nobody has replied -

Germany only uses D-A (multi-engine with a MTOW over 20,000kg), D-B (multi-engine 14,000 to 20,000kg) , D-C (multi-engine 5.700 to 14,000kg, D-E (single engine below 2,000kg), D-F (single engine 2,000 to 5700kg), D-G (multi engine below 2,000kg), D-H (rotary wing), D-K (powered gliders), D-L (airships), D-M (ultralights) and D-O (free balloons) for aircraft, so nothing outside of DAA to DRZ

Philipines uses RP (for Republic Philippines) I presume they have some exception from the ICAO to use it. The russians only use RA and RF for aircraft.

Swaziland/Fiji - Fiji uses DQ (from 3DQ to avoid confusuion because 3D is used by Swaziland) DQ is not used by Germany for aircraft. MilborneOne (talk) 20:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Differences of opinion.

I have with great interest read the article about nationality marks, especially as I have recently researched the matter thoroughly. Unfortunately the result of my research does not entirely agree with the contents of the article.

Among the differences are, that the assignment of nationality marks did not start with ITU's list of radio callsigns in 1913. An abortive attempt was a 1909 conference in Paris, which nevertheless served as the basis for the 1919 list made by the participants in the peace talks in Versailles. The ITU list only came into the picture in 1922 when France suggested that this list should form the basis for the nationality marks.

I have not made a complete list of disagreements, but "my" version of the history - with the focus on the Danish part of it - can be seen on my web-page www.danishaircraft.dk

As a result of the research, I am in possession of the complete documentation, which I am willling to share.

Another minor item is the remarks on Danish (including Faroese Islands and Greenland) registrations. Gliders have registrations all over the alphabet, but with at least one X in the registration. Balloons are not Bxx, but xOx.

Jumper42 (talk) 15:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your are welcome to correct the article and history of registration, all you need is to provide reliable references for any changes made. The history of the early registration marks is an interesting subject and any help in improving this article is appreciated. MilborneOne (talk)

Old codes

TJ- is shown as being Cameroon. This is correct for present day aircraft, but the code TJ- was also used for Transjordan in the 1950s, TJ- registered aircraft were later to become JY- registered. Should the table have a column to show the dates the code was in use from and to? Mjroots (talk) 06:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dont have a problem with dates but they may be difficult to source exact start dates, it may be better to have a seperate section on defunct codes then mess with the big table. MilborneOne (talk) 11:35, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a defunct codes section would be better, the 1919 allocations can be a subsection of that. Mjroots (talk) 07:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

XX-XXXX Format

Are there any country in the world that use code XX-XXXX?? X means letter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by

Not that common, a current one is Saudi Arabia, although normally the fourth is a number but some use all four letters, example Falcon 2000 HZ-KSDC[1]. MilborneOne (talk) 16:27, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Accidents

Is it true that when an airliner is involved in a minor-moderate accident and is repaired and put back into service that the airline will often change the tail number so that passengers can't look up the number and find out that this plane was previously involved in an accident and therefore not want to get on board? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.182.205.113 (talk) 07:20, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I am aware of, if they are any cases they are presumably very rare and I cant think of any. Not the same thing but British Airways had a serious accident with a Trident G-ARPI and have since avoided having any new aircraft with the same last two letters. MilborneOne (talk) 15:55, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Sudan

Has South Sudan introduced their own registration system yet? Roger (talk) 17:02, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Concorde

Why does the section on Concorde exist (in the United Kingdom entry)? This seems to be nothing to do with the general format and nature of aircraft registrations, more a record of individual airframes. Many aircraft get re-registered abroad and then return to their previous registrations. Unless anyone can offer an explanation, I suggest it's removed. Lestocq (talk) 17:44, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are right far to much info for a summary table, I have reduced it to a simple statement as it was a non-standard format that was used. Just as an aside to answer your comment about many aircraft get re-registered I understand the Concordes changed registrations every time they were used in the United States and then changed back which could be daily activity, not that usual an occurance but not really worth a mention in the table. MilborneOne (talk) 10:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New source

I found a doc that I don't see referenced and has some differences, perhaps it can help with some confirmations.

http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/prefix.txt

I notice Cambodia is listed as KH-xxx in the linked doc and XU-aaa on the wiki page. There may be many more differences but I was trying to track down a tail number used in a Tintin cartoon film "Red Sea sharks".

The whole listing is very complicated and I will bow out from what I do not understand. Idyllic press (talk) 12:31, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The list you link to has all uses of registration prefixes but this article only lists current allocations. Not sure what you have seen in a cartoon but is it likely to be real? MilborneOne (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Disused registrations

Should there be a section for registrations that are no longer in use? Most obvious example is SSSR-nnnnn for the Soviet Union; also Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. (Worth noting that what looks to first-language-English eyes as Latin-alphabet "CCCP" is in fact Cyrillic-alphabet "СССР", which are the letters for S and R. So it is an error to refer to "CCCP-12345" in English-language text.) 203.52.130.149 (talk) 09:56, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not a bad idea but it may be worth dealing with them in a seperate table, or even a separate article. I appreciate that you say that CCCP is wrong but it is what is seen by somebody looking at the aircraft and a lot of reliable sources use CCCP, also this is an English wikipedia so it doesnt look wrong to anybody using English. MilborneOne (talk) 10:08, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK I have started List of aircraft registration prefixes, still needs some of the historic stuff adding but I am looking at that. By the way the official ICAO allocation for the soviet union is "CCCP" so it is perfectly correct in English to use the form "CCCP-12345". MilborneOne (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thanks for that, and that's interesting about ICAO treating the Cyrillic glyphs as Latin. They're more pragmatic than me then! (I'm 23/Dec 09:56, really ought to register for an account sometime soon.) 121.223.131.119 (talk) 14:26, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Error Dominican Republic suffix on image

In the image, Dominican Republic has the same suffix as Dominica, a small independent country in lesser antilles. Correct suffix for Dominican Republic is "HI". --179.53.47.86 (talk) 02:13, 13 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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