Talk:Air France accidents and incidents

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11 April 2011

On 11 April 2011, Air France 007, an A380, preparing to depart for Paris Charles de Gaulle at JFK airport, collided while taxiing with a Comair CRJ-700 (Comair 553 / Delta Connection 6293) which had just arrived from Boston. (Flight Global: "VIDEO: Air France A380 hits CRJ while taxiing at JFK", CBS News, "Air France Airbus Collides With Delta Jet On Ground At JFK Airport")

This was recently removed... 65.93.12.101 (talk) 11:17, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It was removed by Slasher-fun (talk · contribs). When I saw the edit summary, my initial thoughts were that it was probably valid. Having watched the video linked from the Flight website, it was not a low-speed clipping of winglets as is usually the case. The A380 was going at a fair speed, and it spun round the CRJ700 through about 90°. I'd suggest that the incident may be notable, but it may be worth waiting a day or so to see what else develops. I'll inform Slasher-Fun of this discussion. Mjroots (talk) 11:32, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

JACDEC reporting damage to both aircraft as "considerable". Mjroots (talk) 11:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, I removed it in accordance with WP:WikiProject Aircraft/page content#Accidents and incidents. F-HPJD already had a ground collision in November 2010 at CDG with an AF A330-200, it stayed out of service during 3 weeks, and today I'm sure pretty much nobody remember this (JACDEC also reported damage as "substantial"). Although this incident was pretty impressive, nobody has been injured, both aircraft will be back in service, and procedures will certainly remain the same. Thanks Mjroots for the message about this discussion Slasher-fun (talk) 11:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Slasher, that guideline does state that such an incident may be included if damage is "serious". In this case, it boils down to "how serious was the damage". Mjroots (talk) 12:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A photo on Pprune shows that the tail of the CRJ is bent and no longer vertical. That would surely count as substantial damage. Possibly enough to make repair uneconomic. Mjroots (talk) 12:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, I created a stub wikinews article on it. wikinews:Taxiway collision between A380 and CRJ-700 at JFK Jetport; while it may not merit an article on Wikipedia, I thought it might merit mention on the lists of incidents, which is why I added it. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 12:11, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The question of whether including this incident or not is also being discussed on Airbus A380 talk page. Slasher-fun (talk) 08:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The incident was added by a second independant editor, and again removed by Slasher. I would suggest that if a third independant editor adds it, then removal by Slasher would be in danger of straying into WP:EW territory. Please let us not go down that road. Mjroots (talk) 10:10, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't trying to start an EW, it's just that most of contributors don't take a look at the discussion page before adding something. I thought the procedure was "let it as it was before, and change it if we have a consensus", but OK I won't change it anymore. Slasher-fun (talk) 10:50, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. It's good to see that you are willing to bow to consensus when it is against you. Your comment is correct, as far as the first addition goes - WP:BRD, but a number of editors adding the info and a single reverter get into EW territory. It's looking as though consensus is that the incident is notable enough to be mentioned. Mjroots (talk) 10:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it belongs to the A380 and to this article as it wasn't the fault of AF or the A380. It was a major error on the airport, either they assigned a wrong taxiway (not wide enough) to the A380 or they didn't notice the smaller aircraft has stopped inside the keep-out-area of this taxiway. If they wouldn't have the video of this ground collision it wouldn't have interested anyone other then the aviation buffs. --Denniss (talk) 11:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It belongs to the A380 and this article, as well as that for JFK, Comair and the CRJ-700, as all were involved in the incident. Blame will lie with the AF captain. Cause may not entirely be with him. All will come out in the NTSB investigation. Mjroots (talk) 11:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The same user also reverted my similar edit on the Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport article (AF007's intended destination was CDG), and then responded to my discussion at Talk:Air France Flight 007 like I don't know anything about air safety. At least he/she didn't use the rollback button because my edit was clearly not vandalism (although some people have used rollback to undo a non-vandalism edit; I have even rollbacked myself when I accidentally rollbacked a legitimate edit). Also, there was also another incident nearly 50 years ago, coincidentally flight 007, that was much more fatal. November Hotel Romeo Hotel Sierra Two Zero One Zero ✈ 18:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This incident shouldn't even be mentionned anywhere since it's only "notable" because somebody caught a video of it. A ground collision that happened in JFK has nothing to do on the CDG article. Remember: this very same aircraft F-HPJD already had a ground collision back in November 2010 at CDG. It's not mentionned anywhere. And that's just because it's so common that it doesn't worth to be mentionned. Slasher-fun (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Air France Flight 7 for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Air France Flight 7 is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Air France Flight 7 until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû _(blah?) 16:48, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Accident report of Hamburg accident, 1961 (released by Federal Office of Aviation of Germany, 1963)

http://web.archive.org/web/20010123155100/http://aviation-safety.net/reports/610727-0.htm - http://www.webcitation.org/6O0bc5ouL

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:11, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

27 July 1961

Air France Flight 272, a Boeing 707-328 (F-BHSA, named Chateau de Versailles) operating the polar route from Paris Orly via Hamburg and Anchorage to Tokyo Haneda veered to the left and ran off the runway at Hamburg Fuhlsbüttel, coming to rest 2,840 m from the starting point in depression containing a building site 140 m from the runway. The accident, which occurred while the aircraft was departing Fuhlsbüttel for Anchorage, severely damaged the aircraft, splitting the fuselage in two places ahead of the wings. As a result, ten of 41 occupants (four of 15 crew members and six of 26 passengers) sustained serious injuries. Among the passengers, Alain Robbe-Grillet (known for his "Nouveau Roman" novels and films as a scenarist) and wife Catherine. Buskoja (talk) 10:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]