Talk:Ahmadiyya

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Frequently asked questions

These questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Ahmadiyya.

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Q1: Why does this page call the Ahmadiyya community Muslims?

A1: Wikipedia adheres to a neutral point of view. That means that we rely on the information available in reliable, independent, secondary sources, which identify Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam. The Ahmadiyya community's beliefs, like Islam, are based on the Six articles of Islamic Faith and the Five Pillars of Islam. Like all Muslims, Ahmadis accept the Quran as their holy text, face the Kaaba during prayer, follow the sunnah, and accept the authority of the ahadith.

Two arguments against the identification of Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam are brought up repeatedly. One is that, according to some Muslims, Ahmadiyya has critical differences that put it outside of Islam. This is not relevant here; we stick with what reliable, secondary sources say just as we do when discussing the Nation of Islam, Messianic Jews, Won Buddhism, or any other controversial religion, and we avoid censorship. The second is that the government of Pakistan has declared that Ahmadis are not Muslims. That is not relevant here. The government of Pakistan does not influence Wikipedia policy. Both of these concerns are discussed in the article.

Q2: Why was my request or comment removed?

A2: Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to censor the page by removing the terms Muslim or Islam, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines, including WP:Reliable sources, will be deleted without discussion. Any further requests to insert words such as Kafir or Qadiani, or to rename the article to Qadianism, will also be deleted without discussion.

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The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 23, 2015, March 23, 2017, and March 23, 2020.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated, especially about use of the terms Qadiani and Kafir and related ideas of whether Ahmadiyya are considered Muslims. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting on that topic.

Frequently asked questions; please read before posting

This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived.

These questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Ahmadiyya.

Why does this page call the Ahmadiyya community Muslims?

Wikipedia adheres to a neutral point of view. That means that we rely on the information available in reliable, independent, secondary sources, which identify Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam. The Ahmadiyya community's beliefs, like Islam, are based on the Six articles of Islamic Faith and the Five Pillars of Islam. Like all Muslims, Ahmadis accept the Quran as their holy text, face the Kaaba during prayer, follow the sunnah, and accept the authority of the ahadith.

Two arguments against the identification of Ahmadiyya as a branch of Islam are brought up repeatedly. One is that, according to some Muslims, Ahmadiyya has critical differences that put it outside of Islam. This is not relevant here; we stick with what reliable, secondary sources say just as we do when discussing the Nation of Islam, Messianic Jews, Won Buddhism, or any other controversial religion, and we avoid censorship. The second is that the government of Pakistan has declared that Ahmadis are not Muslims. That is not relevant here. The government of Pakistan does not influence Wikipedia policy. Both of these concerns are discussed in the article.

Why was my request or comment removed?

Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to censor the page by removing the terms Muslim or Islam, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines, including WP:Reliable sources, will be deleted without discussion. Any further requests to insert words such as Kafir or Qadiyani, or to rename the article to Qadianism, will also be deleted without discussion.

This section is permanently on this talk page and does not get archived. It is for mobile-device users for whom the the normal talk page header and FAQ are not shown.

Ahmadiya community are not Muslim

Discussion closed. Read the FAQ

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As ahmadiya community called themselves muslim to hijack islam, while its actually not islam, thats is why they cant be called "Muslim". Hafiz usama qureshi (talk) 11:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hafiz usama qureshi There is established, clear consensus that Ahmadiyya are Muslims, and this article, as well as the rest of Wikipedia, will continue to use that wording. —C.Fred (talk) 11:29, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"There is established, clear consensus" from whom ? Non muslims ? How is it relevant then ? Who should have authority to say what is compatible with Islam creed and what is not ? Wikipedia ? Non muslims ? Everyone movement can identify as muslim and it is true ? So tomorrow some buddhist says buddhism is a branch of Islam and it becomes true ?

Qadianis do not meet the basic requirements for claiming being a part of Islam. It is a verifiable fact.

Just a sneak peek: https://www.answering-ahmadiyya.org/11-reasons-why-ahmadis-are-not-muslim/

That's the problem with Wikipedia and the reason why I never donated. When it comes to hard science (math, physics, geography and such) it is reliable.

When it comes to soft knowledge (geopolitics, wars, economy-finance, history, philosophy, religions, theories of hard sciences) it becomes pure propaganda by some admins who just use the brand name of Wikipedia to assert an opinion as a fact.

Wikipedia should be split in 2 independant organisations. TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 19:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can use the same logic about Shia, sufies, salafies and athari

I mean some salafies consider all other sections non muslims

and yes they have articles in internet that say

“why athari not a Muslim “

”why Shia not a Muslim “

and so on 176.29.237.186 (talk) 13:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@176.29.237.186 no you cannot use that argument because it's a false equivalency due to the fact that Qadiyanis or Ahmadiyyas are considered by every Muslim sect to be non-Muslim. AlKarachwi (talk) 23:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your circular logic is irrelevant. But also, your or any other editor's reasoning is irrelevant. Read the FAQ to see why you have zero chance of having your proposal accepted. DMacks (talk) 23:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't matter. Ahmadis consider themselves Muslims. You just gotta deal with it. 178.120.48.199 (talk) 01:09, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

they dont belive in quran nor the sunnah they dont face makkah they fave qadiyan they allow alcohol they belive allah fasts sleeps have intercourse April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards. Mirza thinks he is prophet after muhammad saw but Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowlege of all things 33:40 we rely on islanic sources not disbeliver sources and someone pointed out that theres arguments against salafis but salafis doesn't have kufr beliefs.

Mirza thinks he is son of allah

In 1901 Ghulam declared, "by Allah in Whose grip is my soul it is He Who commissioned me and named me a prophet" and he declared that Allah gave him "three hundred thousand". Note that Allah's true messengers and prophets received their assignment suddenly not step-wise like Ghulam. By Ghulam's own declarations, now he became a Kaafir and a liar. (Abstract from QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY, by Ehsan Ilahi Zaheer

Read https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4060/qadianiyyah-in-the-light-of-islam

For more info about their disbelief this is sourced from quran and sunnah

If some disbelivers write here "no they are muslims" then there wrong its not you who decide it is allah in quran and sunnah not anyone who calls himself muslim is one 94.191.136.18 (talk) 09:50, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All things in faq are wrong they dont and send me the "independent resarch" send me quran and sunnah not some disbeliver sources 94.191.136.18 (talk) 09:53, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is your right to have that belief, IP user. However, Wikipedia's policies and guidelines are not based on individual beliefs nor on the writings of any religious authorities or bodies. The FAQ is correct from the standpoint of Wikipedia policy. --bonadea contributions talk 10:07, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nonono from where the disbelievers actually its a consensus among the scholars of islan that they are apostates 1974 in makkah scholars concluded qadyanis are kaafir 94.191.136.18 (talk) 10:51, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2023

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Remove all Islam and Muslim the Ahmadiyya community are not Muslim according to Pakistan government 71.241.206.50 (talk) 11:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Wikipedia is not a mouthpiece or sectarian propaganda arm of the Pakistani government. DMacks (talk) 11:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What any govt. says doesn't matter. We can't term the Ahmadis non-Muslims just because the Pakistani govt. thinks that, no more than we can call the Bahá'í Faith a heresy as per the Iranian govt.; that's NPOV violation. ― Ö S M A N (talk · contribs) 09:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Read my comment above. On what basis are you proving they are muslims ? Just because they say so ? So if I say I am a rabbit it becomes true ? We need some critical mind at least for once. TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody is calling themselves a rabbit, and you are correct- Wikipedia does not try to police religious groups' identities. PepperBeast (talk) 20:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then there is a way to fix that if Wikipedia wants to REALLY avoid conflict and not doing propaganda for one side or the other (which is not being objective because objectively Qadianis are not muslims whether you like it or not based on verifiable facts from both creeds that are mutually exclusive, enumerated in the link above):

"Qadianis" claim to be a new recent branch of Islam but the canonical mainstream branches of Islam reject this claim and consider them as a whole other different religion that is however inspired by and derived from Islam. (Same situation as sikhism)

Voila. You actually reflect the reality with a sentence like that. Instead of claiming falsehood. Please stop the bs and step up the game. Wikipedia is not your truth for God sake. (I am talking generally to all admins that keep doing propaganda for the past 15 years). TheOtherPointOfView (talk) 23:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That information is already in the article. PepperBeast (talk) 23:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

“ (Same situation as sikhism)”

sikhim never consider themselves Muslims 176.29.237.186 (talk) 13:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2024

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Please add at the end of third paragraph in the introduction. It is noted that Ahmadiyya sect is not considered Muslim according to the constitution of Pakistan, and hundreds of court decisions and parliament resolutions. 97% of Muslims in Pakistan feel hurt when Ahmadiyya are called Muslims. Nabeelan (talk) 03:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: seems undue weight for the introduction, already mentioned in the #Persecution section. Also, just no to adding "97% of Muslims in Pakistan feel hurt when Ahmadiyya are called Muslims." Cannolis (talk) 03:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]