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Union Sub-Divisions

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This list currently has provincial and other sub-divisions for some but not other unions and nearly all of these links point to external websites rather than WP articles. Since only the national/international union affiliates with the CLC, I'd like to remove all union sub-divisions from this list. Thoughts?RevelationDirect (talk) 20:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Did so. Handled the CMG one a little differently since that had Canadian content but the CWA article did not.RevelationDirect (talk) 02:22, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Affiliated unions of the Canadian Labour Congress

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As the person who first made this page I disagree with the changes you have made to it. Removing large amounts of the unions because they are provincially based shows a vast lack of understanding of unions in Canada. Yes the shipyard workers of BC are a union based out of BC but they are still members of the Canadian Labour Congress. Not only national/international unions affiliate with the CLC.
Also, a union that is affiliated with another union, for example the fish allied workers and the CAW, are still independent so they are independent members of the CLC not just members through the CAW.
If you look at the links section of the CLC website you will see who they view as the membership. Finally, the Retirees' are also members of the CLC equal to any other union not just a "program of the federation." I hope you will change back the page to the original form seeing your changes are wrong but if not I will have the painstaking changes. whoneedspants (talk) 06:52, 8 March 2010.

Thank you very much for your feedback, Whoneedspants. My goal with trimming down the list was to recognize mergers and limit it to union organizations that are directly affiliated with the federation. So, for instance, Local 1285 is affiliated indirectly with the CLC both through the CAW and the Ontario Federation, but it is not directly connected to the CLC so it's not included. But, if a union has a direct charter, or is directly a member of the CLC it should be included. Are we in agreement so far?
I can't find a list of affiliated unions on the CLC website which makes our task harder. You referenced the Links section but what I found only listed the provincial/territorial federations rather than individual unions. Is there a better link (maybe on the French side of the site) that lists individual union members of the federation?
Finally, the Congress of Union Retirees own web page seems to suggest that it is a program of the federation rather than a member. But, if CURC/ASRC has a voting rights as a member "union", it should certainly be added to the list. Can you provide a link that shows they have equal voting rights with say ACTRA or CUPE?
I look forwad to your reply so we can make the article better.RevelationDirect (talk) 02:42, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with having unions that are directly affiliated with the CLC that is why I had the different listings of for example the National Union of Public and General Employees (NUPGE). NUPGE is not a union in the traditional sense it does not bargain with any employers it is just a union of government unions in the different provinces. So thus NUPGE does not represent those unions at the CLC those unions represent themselves. It is the same with the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions, but looking at it now the Public Service Alliance of Canada is a union and the unions that were listed were actually units of the union so that can change.
You also put the Canadian Media Guild as an international union which I hope with that name it is not. The reason I split it between public sector and private sector unions in the first place was to highlight the fact that we do not have that many private sector unions in Canada.
The links section used to have all the unions when I made the page they recently changed that. The governments usually have a listing of all unions and the national federations their affiliated to but I can't find it right now. But we might have to do the tedious task of looking through all the affiliates of the provincial federations. For the CURC I know that in Manitoba, where I'm from, the retirees rep has equal status on the executive to all the other unions so I would only assume that would be the case at the CLC but I'm not 100%T so we can leave it off. whoneedspants (talk)03:38, 9 March 2010.
OK, so we mostly agree here. The list should only include unions directly affiliated with the CLC. And the CLC is making our jobs a lot harder by not listing out their affiliates on the website.
I'm certainly open to looking at individual union websites but I'm not sure how decisive that would be. Here is the website for the Georgia Theatre workers union. They list themselves as a member of the CLC by which they mean their parent union is and they feel solidarity with Canadian workers. Looking at several local union sites in Canada, they also list themselves as CLC but none get into the more technical issue of whether they're a direct affiliate or part of the federation through a larger union they are part of. This is kinda frustrating. I've done some Google searches to see if I could get a floor vote from a CLC convention but I'm not finding anything.
I added a post to the WikiProject Organized Labour board to see if others knew of a source that would clearly define the CLC membership.
Oddly enough, the Canadian Media Guild's parent union is based in Washington, DC! RevelationDirect (talk) 03:51, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think your a little confused with unions in Canada. The locals are sections of a union that are based on workplaces, similar industries, or regions. They would not be part of the CLC but their union would be. So Local 320 would be a member of CLC through IATSE. But that is different from if NUPGE is a member of the CLC or if it is all of their affiliates. I would argue that it would be their affiliates not the NUPGE. Because the affiliates of NUPGE are NOT locals they are independent unions who have affiliated with NUPGE.
I'm surprised about the Canadian Media Guild who knew. whoneedspants (talk)04:10, 11 March 2010.

I didn't realize NUPGE was structured like that. So basically, it's a mini-federation and each affiliate is a separate union. The US has a similar structure with the Associated Actors and Artistes of America whose affiliates are independent unions not locals. The question remains though whether the CLC admitted the NUPGE as a federation or admitted each affiliate separately. In the case of the 4As, the AFL-CIO admitted the federation not the individual affiliaties but it could very well be different with the CLC. That's a fairly technical question but we agree that the answer determines whether we list the NUPGE once or include the affiliates. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer.RevelationDirect (talk) 01:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wait your not Canadian editing a page about the Canadian Labour Congress that doesn't make any sense. I am a Canadian Labour Studies student who is involved in the labour movement in Canada. I thought maybe you had some different knowledge then I did by editing this page, but it seems you didn't. Yes of course the CLC has allowed all the unions in NUPGE as independent members that is common knowledge. I did research before making the page in the first place. whoneedspants (talk) 00:21, 15 March 2010.
Since we're not able to produce any sources that clarify how the CLC admitted the two members at issue, I have no objection to your listing the affiliated unions at this point until we can get clarification. Country of origin and "common knowledge" are less helpful bases for edits than your reserch though. If you have a printed source that documents this, I'm happy to assist you with adding a reference to the page. Thanks!RevelationDirect (talk) 01:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry reading it back that last comment I made sounded meaner than I intended. Ok so to describe how the situation at the CLC is, the affiliates of NUPGE and CFNU are independent members of the CLC but they send members through the NUPGE and the CFNU instead of going all as individuals. For example, if I was a member of the Manitoba Government Employees Union and I wanted to go as a delegate to the CLC convention I would go through the NUPGE and be a delegate of the NUPGE. So whatever number of delegates the NUPGE and CFNU get they delegate to their affiliates proportionality I would assume. So I guess it is basically both, the NUPGE is the representative at the CLC of their affiliates but all their affiliates are independent members in the CLC. whoneedspants (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2010.
Works for me. And if and when the CLC updates their website (how can a labor federation possibly forget to list their member unions?), we'll regroup at that point. Thanks for your dedication to this article.RevelationDirect (talk) 10:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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