Jump to content

Talk:Aero Commander

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Aero Commander. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:06, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ag Commander - not so much!

[edit]

When Rockwell / Aero Commander took over Snow Aeronautical in 1965, they appear to have got themselves into a muddle over how to name their new baby. Snow at that time were making the Snow S-2D crop sprayer, and following the take-over, the next 100 or so aircraft were manufactured at the same factory at Olney, Texas, as before. Over the next five years, the type became associated more with Rockwell, and less with Snow. Sixty years later, people are not necessarily attributing the correct names to individual aircraft.

Taking an example conveniently found on Wikimedia, VH-FCN, I have put together the following;

VH-FCN, Rockwell S-2D-600 Snow Commander, built 1966
  • The image of VH-FCN was uploaded from Flickr, and as the text states, the exact description of this type is a matter of some conjecture.
  • If it had been constructed in 1965, prior to the Rockwell take-over, it would have been a Snow (Aeronautical) S-2D-600.
  • The c/n number (1363D) confirms it is a 'D' model, but places it in a series dating around 1966, immediately after the Rockwell take-over, making it a Rockwell S-2D Snow Commander, still built in the original Snow factory at Olney, Texas.
  • For comparison, the Rockwell / Aero Commander company demonstrator at the Paris Air Show in 1967 was c/n 1396D, some 33 units later. See below for more on that.
  • Back to VH-FCN; Additional verification comes via the stickers (just) visible on the side of the engine cowling, reading 'Commander S-2D'. Another photo by the same well-known photographer, Geoff Goodall, of this same aircraft, shows an even more complete sticker reading 'Snow Commander S2D' (no hyphen), visible on both sides of the aircraft. This is a hybrid name, comprising a histoical nod to Snow, and the factory it was built in, but adds the 'Commander' brand name from Rockwell.
  • Over the years between 1965 and 1970, production moved to Georgia, and the name morphed firstly into the Rockwell Ag Commander S-2D, before emerging as the definitive Rockwell S-2R Thrush Commander. Notice that the names and designation switch places throughout; that's not me making typos. Also note it was never a 'Thrust Commander'.

To complete the overall story, let us return to the Paris Air Show machine, together with one other of that era that I eventually tracked down.

  • 1967 Paris Air Show N1796S (c/n 1396D) is listed by the FAA as manufactured by Snow, which in essence is correct. However by then it was marketed by Rockwell / Aero Commander.
  • 1968 aircraft N1724S carries c/n 1425R, making it just 29 units later, but the FAA lists this as a model S-2R, now manufactured by 'Aero Commander', so quite probably from their Georgia factory.

This changeover in 67/68 isn't documented clearly, and doesn't fit neatly with either the 1965 takeover, or the 1970 resignation of Snow. But it probably is exactly how it happened, with one factory working up to full production, allowing the other factory to wind-down.

Finding an online source that states all this detail in one place is proving impossible, as almost nothing I have seen has collected all these details together. And even books on the subject have come up with conflicting elements to the story.

So, until someone comes up with a reliable source backing up the idea that 'Ag Commander' is the definitive name, I will argue that it was just one of a variety of names applied to this aircraft type during this transitional period.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 04:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rockwell Commander 112

[edit]

This article documents the take-over by Rockwell in 1958, but does not elaborate upon the gradual change in marketing emphasis from 'Aero Commander' to 'Rockwell Commander'. Indeed, the Rockwell Commander 112 is not even mentioned in this article, as the link to the Aero Commander 100 series of models refers to the high-wing Cessna-type of aircraft, a totally different machine.

Off the top-of-my-head, I see Aero Commander existing in three distinct phases;

  • 1944-58 as an independent company
  • 1958-70 as the Aero Commander division of Rockwell
  • 1970-86 as above, but all models marketed as Rockwell Commander

Of course, finding something that backs this up is not going to be easy.

So what's in a name I hear you ask? I refer you back to the fact the Rockwell Commander 112 is omitted from this article presumably because the connection to Aero Commander has been completely overlooked.

And whilst we are on the subject, it must have been an awful nightmare struggling to get your head around identifying an aircraft as an "Aero Commander 1121 Jet Commander", except on FAA documentation perhaps. In normal speech it was always reduced to 'Jet Commander 1121', but you won't find that written down anywhere. It was a blessed relief when it became the IAI Westwind.

Eventually, if I ever clear the backlog of other editing projects on my list, I will come back here and try to sort this. Meanwhile, you're welcome to it.

WendlingCrusader (talk) 11:19, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aero_Commander&oldid=1249136438"