Talk:Abraham Stavsky

Untitled

Yeah, this just won't due. Aside for the misrepresentation of the Altalena story, the final sentence in this piece implies strongly that Stavsky actually did kill Arlosoroff - despite the fact that he was eventually acquitted of that killing.

There's also the issue of the whitewash of Stavsky's activities sneaking Jews into Israel despite the British blockade, etc, etc. My experience however has been that there's small interest in keeping such facts on record among many wikipedians who hang out in Irgun-related quarters so for now I'll simply remove the nonsensical bit at the end that plays superstitious games with the Arlosoroff affair in attempt to unfairly sway people's opinions, facts be damned.

Your interpretation is incorrect. The location of Stavsky's death does not imply that he killed Arlosoroff. Stavsky was suspected of and arrested for the murder of Arlosoroff, and even if he's innocent, he was identified with that murder. So it is an interesting fact to note that he died close to the spot of Arlosoroff's murder, that's all. I think that this coincidence can be mentioned in the article, but I left it out for the moment.

Regarding his Aliyah activities, you are of course welcome to add any relevant information to the article.

There's also the misrepresentation of the Altalena story, of course. I corrected it too.

Thanks, -- Gabi S. (talk) 08:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

SB: I am not so certain that the assertion "Stavsky was killed in an exchange of gunfire while aboard the Altalena ..." is factually accurate. If I remember correctly, Menachem Begin was on board of the ship, too, at the time the shelling by Hagana began. He was forced to evacuate, and he was always against fratricide, as his many official and public statements and directives confirm, which precluded a civil war among the Jews from erupting. Therefore, I doubt that the fire from Hagana was returned by the people on board Altalena. From what I know, it was one-way shooting, therefore the use of the word "exchange" may be wholly unwarranted.

Interestingly and perhaps even revealingly, the shooting up of Altalena and its survivors (with automatic and canon fire) was carried out under the orders of Ben Gurion and was directed by Itzhak Rabin, who was very proud of his deed, gloating and even bragging about it later, which eventually found its way into print.

Also, I have doubts about the accuracy of the claim that Altalena just ran aground, as claimed in this entry. The whole story was a lot more complex and requires many details, etc. There have been numerous books written on this subject. This summary is quite inaccurate -- it does history no justice.

Further, I totally agree with another reviewer that the last part of the last sentence of the entry is totally unnecessary and suggestive, adding no value whatsoever to the wiki entry. Innuendos have no place in encyclopedias -- only facts. As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously quipped, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

If nothing else, the author should at least have looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altalena_Affair before writing this entry.

Seva.Brodsky (talk) 08:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

==================================

I was there when the Altalena was beached 100 yards from Rehov Frishman. I was there and personally witnessed the exchange of fire which lasted several hours and witnessed the billowing smoke which lasted a full day. The Altalena was not sunk, it was beached intentionaly in shallow water as the ship was in fact an LST "Landing Ship Tank" with bow opening doors and ramp (partially opened). Most of the casualties on board the Altalena were caused by exploding on board ordinance. For about 10 years one could walk right up to the ship at low tide and even climb up. Finally salvage company dismantled the ship in the late 50's.

A very close family member was privy to the Arlosorov murder in great detail. Had it not been for Rav Kook involvment and string pulling Stavsky would not have been exonorated as there was substantial evidence of culpability.

This entry has been edited and supplements time and again by persons with a Betar agenda. That agenda excludes facts and its proponents refuse to be swayed by facts.

E. Benedict 10:03 August 16, 2009

==================================

Once again S Brodsky introduces his agenda with less than subliminal assertions - Stavsky was "Murdered" by the Palmach "under the direction" of Yizchak Rabin who later "bragged" about it. The insistence of SB by virtue of continous and ongoing editing of this entry, and his refusal to be confused by facts is consistent with the right wing position that led to the assasination of Rabin, justification thereof and appeals for the release of a corrupt and demented vicious Yigal Amir.

If there was any confirmation that Wikipedia is unreliable twisted source of information, the editing of Seva Brodsky no doubt are indeed most symbolic of that abberation. I can state from personal experience and observation that the vicious context with which the Right Wing Absolutists propagate their "facts" has not changed in the past 70 years.

Further evidence of the validity of editing made by S Brodsky are below - copied from a failed Federal law suit by S Brodsky

...Seva Brodsky (“Brodsky”), alleges that from 2003 until 2005, he was a student at the defendant New England School of Law (“NESL”) and prior to that an electronic and software engineer for 16 years. In the spring of 2005, he received failing grades in two courses, Constitutional Law and Criminal Procedure, after which he was expelled. Following his expulsion Brodsky underwent a neuropsychological exam with Dr. Rimma Kovalcik (“Dr. Kovalcik”) which revealed that he suffers from memory and organizational deficits “consistent with long-term damage to the brain,”

I ask that you view his ongoing "editing" with the perspective S Brodsky himself offers about his qualifications.

EBenedict November 28, 2010 23:25

—Preceding unsigned comment added by EBenedict (talk • contribs) 17:48, 28 November 2010 (UTC) EBenedict (talk) 01:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Mr. Benedict comments I wish to quote Albert Camus who wrote, "To serve falsehood and despotism is the patriotism of the coward." Mr. Stavsky was a brave man, a hero who saved thousands of Jewish lives by transporting them under nose of British navy at night to Palestinian shore, while the leaders of Jewish Agency appointed by British to be Jewish face for the British rule of Palestine, were saving only their hold on power, the Jews of Europe be damned. The truth is stubborn, Mr. Benedict, it sips through your gap measures. As for your agenda, it's quoted above.

G Shimanovich

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gshiman (talk • contribs) 02:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You may quote Albert Camus all you wish.......deleting the fact that Stavsky died a stone throw away from where Arlosorov was murdered shows your affectation with a curious agenda and ignorance of facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EBenedict (talk • contribs) 22:18, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

==============================================================

So, here we are, November 2013 and revisionists of the Betar and other radical groups continue to claim that Stavsky was "murdered" on the Altalena. Must have been the Easter Bunny or some other whimsical character. I know what happened on that day at the end of Frishman street. I was there!!!! Next we are going to read how the Rabin assassination was really an accidental discharge of a Shin Bet agent. All you right wing nuts should wake up and get real and stop manipulating this page. Sorry that you do not wish to be confused with facts.

E. Benedict

==============================================================

Yes, here we are in November 2013, so I'd like to clarify a few things for Mr. Benedict:

Methinks you're conflating the Stavsky murder with the attack on Altalena "under the direction" of Yizchak Rabin who later "bragged" about it. Please don't.

As for my personal travails, trials, and tribulations, you, who know nothing about me or my life, take it upon yourself to be the judge, the jury, and the executioner:

"Further evidence of the validity of editing made by S Brodsky are below - copied from a failed Federal law suit by S Brodsky ... I ask that you view his ongoing "editing" with the perspective S Brodsky himself offers about his qualifications."

Just so that you don't get carried away with your conjectures and conclusions, Mr. Benedict, you should probably partake of the following comment I posted to http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202430442315 and http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/2009/05/11/law-student-flunks-out-sues-school-for-violating-the-ada/

To all those smartie pants who've been making all sorts of snide remarks (e.g., see http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/ex-law-student-of-the-day-seva-brodsky/#disqus_thread, http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72797&start=25, etc.), (1) the psychologist who did the neuropsychological testing screwed up royally, failing to perform some of the required tests (about which I only found out during litigation); (2) my lawyer made several crucial mistakes; (3) most of those mistakes could still have been corrected by another, more competent and experienced lawyer, but (4) by then I had run out of money, therefore having to (5) settle the lawsuit with NESL, and (5) even having to sell my house.

A real bummer, eh? So, was there a cherry topping on this ugly mud pie? Yes, there was: http://www.archive.today/uLXwM

No, I haven't had another opportunity to go to another law school yet -- I now live in another country where another language is spoken, have a child, am engaged in inventing and other productive activities (having published and pending patents), dreaming of seeing the fruits of my labors come to life, rewarding me handsomely, and then … and then, if and when I become independently wealthy (as of this writing I am 50 years old), then maybe trying to get into a law school again, as I really like jurisprudence and don't like vile people, going after whom would be that much easier with a law degree.

Do you feel embarrassed and/or ashamed NOW, Mr. Benedict? If not, you should.

Seva Brodsky, Jerusalem

P.S. Given what you've written below, E. Benedict, you are a bitter and vile old man. Your bile burns your gut. You have neither conscience nor shame. For the benefit of others, I'm translating what you wrote to me in Hebrew, you master of argumentation you:

"You are totally stupid. Very simply … not half-stupid … completely stupid."

If you were a Christian, I'd tell you to burn in hell, for you probably deserve it. Since you are a fellow Jew - well, no, you are no fellow of mine, but a strange and nasty Jew, with a vicious heart and a tiny shriveled soul - I'll merely say that I pity you, leaving you to ponder the following quote from an old (1951) movie, "People Will Talk":

Shunderson: "Professor Elwell, you're a little man. It's not that you're short. You're … little, in the mind and in the heart. Tonight, you tried to make a man little whose boots you couldn't touch if you stood on tiptoe on top of the highest mountain in the world. And as it turned out … you're even littler than you were before."

Sleep on that one, E. Benedict - if you can.

==============================================================

Hey Brodsky - ata metumtam legamrai. Pashoot meod.....lo chazi metumtam...metumtam gamoor. Good luck with the rest of your delusional life. E. Benedict