Talk:Abigail Hopper Gibbons

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Missing and Fake Citations, Non-Sequitur Innuendo

Most of the substantive citations for this article are missing ("citation needed"), because it is so heavily based on a website lacking proper cites. In one case I found a citation to an Iver Bernstein book on the Draft Riots, but the subject cited appears nowhere in that book. (I have put a legitimate citation to the book into the article, however.)

Whoever put in that fake footnote also slid in an innuendo in the form of a non sequitur. The paragraph said:

On Tuesday, July 14, 1863, Gibbons' Manhattan home at 339 West 29th Street was attacked by rioters during the Draft Riots due to her staunch support for abolitionism, despite the fact that Gibbons' Women's Prison Association (WPA) clients were Irish immigrants struggling with alcohol dependency, made worse by the extreme poverty in which they lived. Gibbons and her staff worked tirelessly to provide these women with a place to stay, a supportive community, and practical skills training. They created programs for these women, who had previously only known poverty and trouble in their lives.

Let's see now... The author seems to be saying that it is a) ironic that Mrs Gibbons's house was attacked by rioters (who, it is implied, might not have liked abolitionism?), inasmuch as b) Mrs Gibbons worked with women prisoners who were Irish immigrants who drank too much (and perhaps this is because they poor, it is suggested?).

What is the relevance? Were the rioters women prisoners who were Irish and drank too much? No citation for that. Regardless: if they were, and they knew Mrs Gibbons, are we to infer that they broke out of prison and attacked Mrs Gibbons's house because they didn't like her style? Too condescending, was she? Never mind; how did they get out of prison anyway? Were they on a day pass?

And how does this have anything to do with the Draft Riots? Unless they were political prisoners whom the Radical Republicans locked up in Fort Lafayette. Now that might be a good reason to attack Mrs Gibbons. But Col. Burke wasn't giving out day passes from Fort Lafayette. So that couldn't be what the author meant. Thus in interests of clarity I have removed the confusion.Sallieparker (talk) 01:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Sallie, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this, but your comments show you don't know enough about the draft riots or the Gibbonses to be doing much serious editing on this article.

The notice at the top of the page shows the website is legit--I think it can stand on its own two feet. I refer you to this book, if you can buy or borrow it. GoogleBooks can help. So can letters from her and others.

Best wishes, Yopienso (talk) 05:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well now! If you had these books, and you had passages that were relevant, you should have quoted them, instead of cutting-and-pasting from pages on the interweb. If you are going to copy long sections from other people's websites, at least give them the benefit of citation.

As for my other remarks: the Gibbonses were relatives of Joe Choate, and members of his political faction. They were not innocent bystanders; they were extremely partisan.Sallieparker (talk) 07:01, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know how to view the history of an article? Just click on the "View history" tab. There you will find my sole contributions to this article have been to link to a National Geographic clip and to cite to the Hoppers' and Gibbonses' break with the Quakers.

I added the clip after a dear friend and neighbor told me, "Angela's on TV!" Angela is her niece (or second cousin?) and Abby's great (I forget how many greats) granddaughter. Angela is my second daughter's age and they spent time together when she visited here years ago. At least ten years ago I'd read a book of my friend's about her Great-aunt Abby; she has since misplaced it. Right now I don't have the time to work on this article.

Yes, the Gibbons home was specifically targeted, most likely because of their abolition work. Negroes were exempt from the draft but the other despised minority that did mostly menial labor was free--the Irish--and so were subject to the draft. Yopienso (talk) 16:26, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]