Talk:Abhinay School of Performing Arts

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Table list of plays

It appears that the list of plays is mostly sourced to local listings (with some anonymous press releases published on a site called publictelegraph.com, which isn't a reliable source). Since these appear to be routine listings of performances without any additional context, the general practice on Wikipedia is not to list them. Just as articles about theatres do not list every single play ever performed, this article should focus on the most notable performances, as supported by reliable, WP:SECONDARY sources. This means that festival listings are right out, and routine event listings should probably be avoided as well. As a general rule, every source should mention Abhinay School specifically, and should in some way clearly indicate that the play is significant to the school. Passing mentions are probably not significant, and the list contributes to the current excessively promotional appearance of the article. Grayfell (talk) 05:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed every play without a reliable source. Content should only be restored with reliable, secondary sources. Passing mentions or routine listings are not generally acceptable for this kind of thing. As a guideline, it is helpful to first look for sources, and then add the content, not the other way around. Grayfell (talk) 21:50, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Affiliated sources

While cleaning up the article, I've noticed that a disproportionate number of references are written by Neena Badhwar for a site called Indian Down Under. (Most are under a full name, but I think it's safe to assume the monoym 'Neena' used in this source is also her.) Badwhar is also described in the article as being a playwrite who has written several plays performed by the school, which make her pretty clearly a non neutral source. Beyond that, I don't think Indian Down Under is a reliable source, it appears to be very lax in its submission policy.[1]

As mentioned above, I'm also concerned that Public Telegraph isn't reliable, either, and most of the sources used from that site are obvious press releases. If much better sources can't be found this article will have to be drastically reduced in size. Only content supported by reliable sources should be included. Additionally, other than very routine and uncontroversial information, only content supported by WP:SECONDARY sources should be included. Grayfell (talk) 06:51, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed many refs which used those two sites. The list of every play is inappropriately large, and would've still been too large even if we gave the questionable sources the benefit of the doubt. As such, routine reviews of plays should not be used as sources. There are too many of them, and it's impossible to determine which are of encyclopedic significance and which merely happened. The problem is not proving that the plays were produced -nobody here is denying that- the problem is establishing which ones should be mentioned in this article. The school can publish the list themselves, on their own website or elsewhere if they like, but Wikipedia is not a hosting service (WP:NOT), and such information doesn't belong here.

As new editors who are familiar with the school, I'm hoping that @Angel Desouza: and @Honey Fernandis: would be willing to discuss these issues here on the talk page. Right now the article explains attitudes towards promoting Subcontinent culture in Australia, but it totally fails to mention some very important things: Who are the students? What ages? What are the admission requirements? What kind of facilities does the school have? Tuition costs? Is the school accredited? These are basic things that belong in an encyclopedia article about the school. I added the infobox to the article in the hopes that you might include some of that information. For details like this it is okay to use WP:PRIMARY sources, such as the school's own website, but it must be phrased in a neutral way. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 02:44, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Indian Downunder - Neena Badhwar

Angel Desouza (talk) 20:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello There, The Indian Down under is is Australia's first Indian newspaper and Neena Badhwar is the editor of the paper. This paper is 26 years old. She also happened to submit the plays when she came to cover the event. Abhinay School has performed her plays as well. I don't think that it is not a reliable source. The Indian Down under online (http://www.indiandownunder.com.au/) is very reputed source. I can understand that she did Alex Broun's workshop with Abhinay and submitted more scripts and therefore it is not third party. At the same time, she is not part of Abhinay other than a writer.

Public Telegraph (http://publictelegraph.com/) is online paper, which covers a range of events. They are not connected with Abhinay in any other way. Understand that list it too long to publish on wiki, will remove some plays from the list.

Angel Desouza (talk) 20:21, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for continuing the discussion here. The Indian Down Under may be a reputable newspaper, but its website doesn't confirm any of that information you mention (http://www.indiandownunder.com.au/about/). Per Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources: Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Unless there is some way to verify that the paper is reputable, it should not be used as a source at this time.

Likewise, Public Telegraph is a news portal, which generally means that they republish content from elsewhere. That's fine, but it means that every cited article must itself be taken from a reliable source, and it's always better to use the original source. PT News Service doesn't appear to be such a source. The highly promotional tone of many of those articles tells me that they also republish press releases as stories. This is, unfortunately, common among online news outlets, but it's a poor practice. Press releases are not secondary, and can only be used in limited circumstances. Grayfell (talk) 21:45, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there,Abhinay school is a not for profit association and has an executive committee. Check: http://www.abhinay.com.au/executive-committee/

Decisions are taken by the committee not only her, not comfortable by taking only her name for founding, it is not fair to other committee members. We are registered with department of Fair Trading and also Department of Gaming and liquor to raise funds for charity. As mentioned in www.abhinay.com.au Abhinay Incorporation no. is 9892 389, Charity fundraising number is: 21389 and ABN no. is 72 253 204 366.Our Chairman is Jeet Sud, Treasurer is Raj Dixit since 2009 and President and Artistic Director is Aishveryaa Nidhi.

The school also promotes the Hindi language through instructional classes and live performances.[citation needed]Citaion: http://www.theleader.com.au/story/1308948/nurturing-hindi-culture/ and celebration of Hindi Diwas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi_Diwas) producing 10 Indian Australian stories (plays) in hindi which also promote multiculturalism every year with support from local councils. Husrtville and Kogarah is providing opportunities for local talent to write, direct and lot of actors to act is commendable. There are no charges taken from the talent. ie. Writers, directors, actors and singer & dancers who perform, don't pay. Abhinay school pays for rehearsal venue and choreographer's fee. Abhinay does charge minimal amount from regular students who learn Kathak, Bhangra and Bollywood dancing. Abhinay also charges for special workshops like Voice training with Bill Pepper etc.

Angel Desouza (talk) 22:52, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"We are registered..."? So you are acknowledging a conflict of interest? I understand your desire to provide information about your organization, but the article is still very difficult to understand from an outside perspective. I still don't know what your school actually does or who is involved, other than a handful of semi-famous people. Who are your students? How many of them are there? Are they adults or children or both? Where do they meet, and how often? Day or night? Only weekends? Don't just tell me, find sources explaining this. If there are no sources, you should be fixing that problem. Perhaps you could contact whoever hosts your organization's website.

Am I correct in gathering that this is not a primary or secondary school? The school doesn't grant diplomas, right? If that's right, the article needs to rely on info from secondary sources, and may not even meet notability guidelines for organizations.

The fundraising status is probably not worth explaining in great detail in this article. Saying that the school is a non-profit is probably enough unless there are secondary sources talking about it.

I have included the other people in the infobox, but beyond that, you will need better sources to prove WP:DUE weight.

Regardless, as an editor with a conflict of interest, please stop editing the article, and stick to this talk page.

Grayfell (talk) 02:04, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]