Talk:Abel Azcona/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 00:54, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm Kingsif, and I'll be doing this review. This is an automated message that helps keep the bot updating the nominated article's talkpage working and allows me to say hi. Feel free to reach out and, if you think the review has gone well, I have some open GA nominations that you could (but are under no obligation to) look at. Kingsif (talk) 00:54, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

@Lolay1983: Hi there! My first comments, things I'd like to get worked out before the standard review (the article looks great from a first read), are 1. that the long note about his name should be worked into an 'Early life' section - lots of interesting stuff about adoption that should be expressed in the article and that isn't really a note about his birth name - and 2. that there's a lot of fantastic images (kudos to the great editors who took them) but the use and organization of them may need some work, or at least standardization. Any thoughts on this? Kingsif (talk) 01:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsif: Hi, sorry for the delay. I think your ideas are great for improving the article, so I've started to place the images on their respective places, more coherently. I've prepared a translation that I will soon add from the Spanish wikipedia about early life, so the article is more complete and so the note fits better into the article better, so it doesn't feel decontextualized. I think the article will improve a lot with these changes! I will keep working on it. Lolay1983 (talk) 02:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Kingsif:, as I explained yesterday, I have translated the Early Life part so the note fits into the text better as you suggested. Also, I think the images are better contextualized now and the placement makes much more sense. I think the two mentioned requests are fixed now. Thank you very much.Lolay1983 (talk) 02:45, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great; review below:

I know the page says to use MDY date format, but wouldn't it be DMY for Spain?
Lead a decent length, it could be a little longer, but doesn't have to be
The infobox list of notable works is perhaps too long? What is he best known for?
Plenty beautiful free images
- There's still perhaps a too-large gallery in the First works section, and they don't all seem connected?
Copyvio check seems clear
The Early life, Name, and First works should all be sections – remove the Biography heading
- 'First works' may be better as 'Early works'
Other section questions:
- Have you done an Artistic style (or similar) section? Is this the first paragraph of the Artistic works section, because I think it may deserve to be more prominent?
- 'Controversy and polemics' should just be 'Controversies' ('polemic' is a synonym for 'controversial')
- Could 'Literary work' be 'Bibliography', and 'Cinematographic work' be 'Filmography'?
  - The current part titled 'Bibliography' would then become 'Sources' or 'Further reading', whichever is more appropriate, and should be below the References
Some tweaks in phrasing needed, mostly for article and preposition use:
- as a result of → "as the result of"
- people in risk of → "people at risk of"
- and a prostitute → "and prostitute"
- abandoned him in the maternity → "abandoned him at the clinic"
- a man linked to his mother, who insisted he was the father, even though he met Victoria when she was already pregnant and was her sentimental partner sporadically → "a man who knew his mother and insisted ... he met her when ... was her partner only sporadically"
- Azcona was since brought up → "Azcona was then raised"
- @Lolay1983: actually, can I ask if your first language is English? If not, I might just copyedit this all - it's good and mostly makes perfect sense, but has consistent small mistakes.
Add a space before The nuns gave the newborn baby (start of a sentence) – same needed in a few other places
Regarding as he continuously went in and out of prison, does the "he" refer to Azcona or the man?
The last sentence, about social welfare, doesn't quite make sense - what happened that resulted in his birth certificate?
Navarra should be Navarre, and "navarrese" should have a capital 'N'.
It's repeated in full that the man was not Azcona's father - excessive, the detail can all be consolidated into the first instance
The first line of the Name section isn't a complete sentence.
There should probably also be some explanation of the surname situation (I would also suggest using surname rather than last name when discussing it) - Spanish naming conventions are not necessarily understood by people from other countries (especially the United States). In fact, the {{spanish name|}} template may be useful at the top of the article, too.
I suggest wikilinking Pamplona, Madrid, and other things, at the first use; the article is relatively low on links
- On the other hand, simple terms like "controversies and legal proceedings" do not need links.
- Is Still Life intended to link to something Azcona-related? At the moment it links to still life, the concept
Content generally good, but it does read like a rough translation, throughout.
Was the Little Buds quotation originally in Spanish? If so, could both be used (could the original be added)?
Over-coverage of some of his works: most of the sections are as long as their individual articles; the more influential ones can be detailed (but should be trimmed), whereas the rest should perhaps just be listed.
In External links, there are separate boxes for his pages on other wikis, but I know there's a template that puts them all together; I'll try find it.

Hi @Kingsif:. In the first place, I wanted to thank you for the great work that you have done, it has made it so much easier for me to improve the page. As you can see, I have gone step by step making every change you asked for. Answering your question, my first language is not English, it's Spanish, so all the help with translation is welcome. Of all the requirements, the only problem I found is that the template for Spanish name does not fit the artist's situation. I think the name and surname situation is well explained in the name section, but mostly the issue is that the template places the first surname as the father's, and Azcona does not have a father, and his first surname is his mother's. Everything else has been modified and I think the page looks great now. Thank you very much again.--Lolay1983 (talk) 16:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, I didn't think of that. Perhaps a custom hatnote? I still think some explanation of the custom would be useful, as it gives context to why the surname was variously changed, something that probably wouldn't happen in the US. Kingsif (talk) 16:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lolay1983: I have modified the hatnote; I've also made this edit, copyediting the first few sections and re-ordering the mention of the adoptive family so that it is chronological. Hope this helps! You've done a lot of good work on it, I'll look at it more later - would you be able to do a copyedit of the translation for rest or should I? Kingsif (talk) 17:20, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsif: The new changes look great! I think my English is not good enough to do a copyedit myself, I think if you did it the result would be much better.--Lolay1983 (talk) 22:49, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a translation copyedit. @Lolay1983:, in the discussion of Amen, the article says that the wafers were used to spell out 'Pederasty'. Presumably they actually spelled out pederastia? I haven't changed this, but I think Azcona would use the Spanish word. Kingsif (talk) 01:28, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

on hold There's probably still an excess of images, as nice as they are. Bigger concerns are the prose, which is in rough English. More comments above. Kingsif (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All issues addressed, translation checked - happy to pass. Kingsif (talk) 02:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.