Talk:Abd al-Malik ibn Umar ibn Marwan/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 21:22, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to do this review before the end of the day.

Pre-review image

I found the papyrus that may mention Abd al-Malik's father, there's probably no room for it in the article, but I though you might be interested.

Review comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 23:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention ;) I believe it’s relevant enough for inclusion, do not anticipate an article will be created about Umar ibn Marwan himself due to the lack of source material. May even create a redirect for him linking to the Ancestry section of the article. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Review comments

Lead section

I would amend c.778 using {{circa|lk=no|778}} to avoid overlinking
Could readers be confused with similar sounding names, e.g. Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan? Consider adding the hatnote {{For|other people with the same name|Abd al-Malik (disambiguation){{!}}Abdul Malik}}

All done, but modified the proposed hatnote to Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan as this could be the only one I think readers could confuse the subject with. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1 Ancestry

Consider linking Greek (Ancient Greek) and governor of Egypt (List_of_rulers_of_Islamic_Egypt#Umayyad_Caliphate_(659–750))
I’m wondering if the first sentence would read better if it was split into two shorter ones.
Umar resided in a house in Fustat – is it worth mentioning that this was the capital city of Egypt at the time?
Link papyri (Papyrus)

All done, though I believe you meant the third sentence as the first two are short and to the point. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2 Career

Link Alejandro García Sanjuán (note spelling) using {{Ill|Alejandro García Sanjuán|es}}
the surviving, mostly less eminent, Umayyads to arrive in al-Andalus (Islamic Spain) in the aftermath – consider amending to something like ‘the mostly less eminent Umayyads to arrive in al-Andalus (Islamic Spain). He survived…’

Broke this up, but the point about "less eminent" is less about Abd al-Malik, and more about the Umayyads in general who ended up in Spain. Few, if any, had been noteworthy members of the dynasty; many were known in the 'eastern' sources by name only and they played no discernible role before their arrival in Spain. Among these, mostly less eminent, Umayyad arrivals, Abd al-Malik was probably one of the most notable. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To help reduce the length of the sentence, I would amend Abd al-Malik gained the confidence of Abd al-Rahman and became... to ‘Abd al-Malik gained the confidence of Abd al-Rahman. He became…’
As it may be unclear to some readers that mawali is singular, I would improve the prose by amending his mawali Badr and Abu Uthman Ubayd Allah ibn Uthman to ‘Abu Uthman Ubayd Allah ibn Uthman and his mawali Badr’

Mawali is plural (mawla is singular). Abu Uthman Ubayd Allah ibn Uthman was also a mawla. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so that means to his mawali Badr and Abu Uthman Ubayd Allah ibn Uthman needs to be clearer, as I might not be the only reader to misunderstand. How about 'to his two mawali, Badr and Abu Uthman Ubayd Allah ibn Uthman'? AM

At some point is vague and seems redundant here. Simply ‘Abd al-Malik was replaced’?
from the post – ‘from his post’ sounds better imo
Amend the peninsula to 'the Iberian peninsula'? (linked)
Consider amending the Friday prayer, a traditional acknowledgement of Islamic sovereignty, in 757 to ‘the Friday prayer—a traditional acknowledgement of Islamic sovereignty—in 757', to help clarify the text.
Is afterward needed?
condemned and also seems redundant
the marriage of his son – it needs to be clearer whose son is being referred to here
Replace strengthened and consecrated with 'increased'? (consecrated surely means something else)
Link vanguard

All done. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

3 Death and legacy

Abdallah doesn’t link to the correct article
died c. 778 – died in c. 778 sounds better imo
Abd al-Malik's grandson – if no name is available, I would amend this to ‘A grandson of Abd al-Malik’

Got the name now. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A fifth-generation direct descendant is possibly excessively detailed, and could be reduced to ‘Another descendant’
served as the governor of Zaragoza – it might be useful to readers for you to include when he served
Link pretender
his descendants - 'Abd al-Malik's descendants' (for the sake of clarification)

All done. Should we mention the names of all his sons here (a few have been left out as they played no noteworthy roles), or no need? Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Imo it's not necessary, only notable offspring should be mentioned. AM

5 Bibliography

Link Maribel Fierro; Hugh N. Kennedy
Add 'language=it to Morelli, as the article is in Italian
It's unclear if Ref 3 (the doctorate thesis) can be used to verify the text - see WP:SCHOLARSHIP. I would allow it only if you are sure no better source could be used.

First two points done. On the thesis, I generally would not use such a source unless the author is (or rather became) noted in their field, but since the author is just translating the original text (and this is a limited and relatively minor piece of info), I figured it would slide. I would rather cite the original source (page 98 of the 1922 edition of Ibn Abd al-Hakam's Futuh), which is readily available online, but that page (and most of the edition) is still in Arabic—only the annotations are in English. Since I cannot read Arabic well, I cannot vouch that it’s actually in there, so I’m using that thesis instead, at least for the time being. Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I quite understand—the thesis citation is quite relevant here. AM

On hold

An interesting topic, and well written—all the points I have listed are relatively minor. I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 7 February to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 08:47, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Amitchell125: Thank you for taking this up. I appreciate your recommendations. Please let me know if the recent changes are ok and if there is anything else that needs to be done. Cheers Al Ameer (talk) 04:11, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Only one unaddressed comment remaining (marked with the small red cross). Amitchell125 (talk) 08:23, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Passing now

The article is now well into GA territory, so passing now. Great work! The last comment can be done at your leisure...Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 08:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]