Talk:A Farewell to Arms/Archive 1

Archive 1

needs discussion of how much is autobiography

The intro says it's semi-autobiographical. Article should discuss what aspects of the novel are autobiographical. Tempshill 05:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC) Catch 22 There are some striking similarities between this book and catch 22 that suggest the influence of Hemingway on Heller. Besides the location of the action, there is also the stoic and cynical attitude of Italians to war, the incompetance of officers and the need to avoid death at all costs despite its inevitablity

Book/Film

Does it make sense to make a new page for the film (the 1957 version with Rock Hudson) I'm not sure if it's significant enough but pages look awfully cramped with both novel AND film infoboxes Gillian416 20:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

summary etc

While very accurate, the summary and short bit of analysis towards the end of this article seem to be incomplete in major ways. Notably that both do not even seem to consider the latter half of the book (the narrators relationship with Miss Barkley for instance). I haven't at this time looked over the history of the article, but it looks like it's part of someone's essay. A shorter summary and a properly cited analysis would be much to prefer. Possibly, I can take on a part of that job. Mikkel 04:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. I haven't read the book, and in fact drifted over this way looking for a very simple, skimmable, paragraph summary of the basic themes/plot of the book, rundown of characters, etc. All I wanted was to make sure I was making the literary reference I thought I was making (that semi-autobiographical book by Hemingway where the WWI soldier falls in love with a nurse). While commendable that someone would go into such detail, the basics need to be here, too. 72.89.216.74 19:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Black pig?

>>"Did you ever read the 'Black Pig'?" asked the lieutenant. "I will get you a copy. It was that which shook my faith."

Does this book exist? Amazon isn't cooperating. 76.180.120.161 (talk) 23:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• Ah -- you should have tried Google. The second hit (for me, this evening) suggests that the work in question is "Il Maiale Nero", a book by Umberto Notari and is allegedly anti-church. His first book "Quelle signore" dealt with the subject of prostituion and garnered him both a fine for obscenity as well as decent sales: the 1920 reprint nailed a half-million sales. Ogre lawless (talk) 06:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Let me just say that the section on Rinaldi is quite brilliantly written! DanMcScience (talk) 03:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Newspaper?

I have to write a paper and I was trying to find a quote about The Newspaper. I believe at some point Tenete(Fredric Henry) was talking about how the paper was a watered down version or something to that extent.. Any help would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.147.219.77 (talk) 03:24, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

ambulance driver ???

I was under the impression that the main character was not an ambulance driver, as the article says, but some sort of chief for the ambulance drivers. How can a lieutenant be an ambulance driver as well ? It doesn't make any sense. 86.127.186.205 (talk) 10:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

He was in command of the unit's ambulances. But he did much of the driving himself as well.

Yes, though the Lieutenant is the head of the ambulance drivers, he does drive his own ambulance in book one.PonileExpress (talk) 22:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have been one of the few career oportunities for foreigners in the Italian army. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OxnardMontado (talk • contribs) 16:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment as Top importance

This is the only Hemingway's novel that is rated as Top importance. Such rating should go instead to Talk:The Old Man and the Sea (now rated high), given the higher literary impact and explicit citation in the Nobel Prize award.--Sum (talk) 15:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Two questions

It's odd that the Red Cross emblem on the cap comes, according to the photo details, from the Austro-Hungarian Army — the army the Italians, and Hemingway, were fighting against. Is there an explanation?

In the book, Frederic Henry flees as the Italian Army retreats, is apprehended by Italian field police, and narrowly avoids being shot as a deserter. Henry, like the real Hemingway himself, was an American volunteer. How is it that the Italians thought they had the right to executive an American volunteer? Was this part of the story historically valid?

Sca (talk) 21:24, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

I had wondered about the image but never looked at it carefully. Let's remove it until we have a source for it. The rest would will need research. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:57, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Legacy

Does anyone else think there should be a new section in the article that discusses the historical, social, and literary legacy of this novel? Hsxeric (talk) 04:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Plot summary/ending

I was surprised that that the plot summary says Frederic drives off a cliff in the end. I didn't recall this, and after pulling the book off my shelf and double-checking I found the story in my edition concludes with him walking back to the hotel. Is the suicide business just a fabrication or is this an alternate draft published in another edition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.86.207 (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

You are quite correct. That Henry later becomes depressed and commits suicide is not part of the novel. Both changes were made in quick succession yesterday: perhaps someone's misremembered, interpolated or is just joking. I've reverted both additions, plot summary now ends with FH walking back to hotel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.217.109 (talk) 20:34, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment

Why on earth do people bother editing these articles when they are just butchered by some idiot who rather than assume good faith simply takes out what they don't like, despite there being no reason save personal taste? This article is now shit compared to the same one this time last year. It's a statement of how low this site has sunk that this sort inane, thick headed rewriting is allowed to occur. This article is a shell of what it once was, and is no way better. Where are the characters section, the literary review, an overview? The person responsible is like a rash across the article, who put them in overall editorial charge? makes my blood boil to see perfectly adequate articles get turned to tripe by imbeciles!!!! 109.155.75.181 (talk) 11:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess that would be me. If you think this version is better, please go ahead and reinstate it. I began to rewrite with the intention of getting it done as well as The Sun Also Rises but got distracted, didn't come back and no one else has stepped up to work on it. And no, I'm not in "overall editorial charge" - anyone can edit here. But we do like to see reliable sources, and that takes a bit of time and effort. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I think that older version is much better. I came here having just listened to a radio adaptation and the page as it stands it not much use. That older version is much better. Also, as it currently stands, it refers to censorship without saying what that censorship is. SandJ-on-WP (talk) 13:26, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Article Evaluation

The following reasons are why this article most likely received its "C" rating:

Citations: Very little citation is done in the MLA format or given a URL George Peele poem needs to be cited Censorship section utilizes only two citations and should be rolled into the Publication History section. Mellow citation is threadbare, and even if he is making this claim it begs the question: which one of Hemingway's contemporaries made this valuation? Did this critical acclaim occur during Hemingway's lifetime? What is a "modern American writer" and how does that count as a value statement? Need to cite the source for the fact that this was Hemingway's first best-seller

Use of ambiguous language, poor grammar, and biased language: This is especially the case when it comes to the plot summary. It needs to read as a mere chronology of events. Any opinion needs to cite a credible critical theorist or peer reviewed journal.

Relevance: The George Peele reference is completely disjointed from the first paragraph. However, it is entirely necessary to the article. Only one critic is cited in Critical Reception section. This is the section I would really like to flesh out to include a historical perspective of how different critical theories have viewed A Farewell to Arms and how he has essentially fallen out of literary canon.

Missing: Dramatis Personae Major Themes Style of the Novel Style of the Writing

I propose using "The Sun Also Rises" as a benchmark moving forward as it is well-written and received an "FA" grade. Joshuamichaeldavis (talk) 04:50, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi Joshuamichaeldavis and Alfredriggs thanks for the comments, but I just wanted to point out that we don't usually use Wikipedia talk pages for class assignment type evaluations. To take on a couple of Joshua's comments: first there is no single author on any Wikipedia article. Rather, it's a process of accretion, of the concept that eventually someone will come along and whip the page into better shape, but with millions of articles there's no guarantee of when that will happen. Regarding MLA formatting, the style has recently changed, but beyond that, there's no way to stop anyone from using any type of formatting they wish. Typically I use something close to MLA, but that's not required here (and often frowned upon). In regards to the request for a citation for the Peele poem - both yes and no. See our policy about how write a lead, (WP:LEAD) (which is significantly different than writing a standard intro for an English class). We don't require cites for the lead, and once the article is finished that piece would probably be spun out in the article body. I added the information from Mellow, and thought it did need attribution because it's a big statement, but he's a respected Hemingway biographer and it's a mainstream statement so doesn't need more citations there. The Sources section is the place to find the full bibliographic info (that is similar to a writing a paper in an English class). In terms of who the author is, well, look at the history for the article here. I've made a number of edits but most were clean up edits, simply trying to tidy. So far I've written the Hemingway biography, The Sun Also Rises and a number of other Hemingway pages. It would be nice if there were enough time in the world to do the research required to bring this up to snuff like SAR is, but as a volunteer, it's a big effort and we don't consider those evaluations grades. Achieving FA status is nice, because then the article reaches some sort of stable status. Generally when someone evaluates an article as been done here, we welcome help - in other words feel free to dig in. As long as you all have access to good secondary sources, which I assume you do given your institution, then have a go. If anyone has a question or needs help, you can post here. One more thing, the comment Alfredriggs made is odd: is that the course prof? I ask because the link goes the professor/instructor's page. Generally we don't make value judgements about other editors, just so you all know. Thanks and good luck. Victoriaearle (tk) 01:05, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Victoriaearle! My apologies about the aforementioned comment. It was not meant to be published, and should not reflect on the user. Thank you for the tips and the heads up on decorum. To clarify, I think the Mellow citation is excellent. I simply wish to cite a few other secondary sources in order to corroborate the information. I should be pushing out a few edits and citations soon. Cheers!

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Gore Vidal

I’m afraid Gore Vidal’s comment on the novel in the “Critical reception” section has been misconstrued as praise. Antinoos69 (talk) 12:54, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

What was the "censored" text?

There's a "Censorship" section, but no indication of what was censored. A previous edit had the following:

In print, the words "shit", "fuck" and "cocksucker" were replaced with dashes ("----").<ref name="Hemingway, Ernest 1929">Hemingway, Ernest. "A Farewell to Arms." (New York: Scribner, 1929). James Joyce Collection, the Poetry Collection (State University of New York at Buffalo), item J69.23.8 TC141 H45 F37 1929</ref> 

I can't confirm this as I don't have a copy; is it correct? Should it be reinstated? -- Dan Griscom (talk) 23:25, 13 January 2019 (UTC)