Talk:A-flat clarinet/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Schminnte (talk · contribs) 08:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello @ Jonathanischoice, you know the drill by now so I'll skip the boring bits. I'll start working on this review soon, at least within the week. As a clarinettist, I'm excited to get started and spotcheck with my own copies! All the best, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 08:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jonathanischoice, I think I have finished with review comments. I will now place the article on the standard hold period to give you time to address them. All the best, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 21:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: - Hi, I'm half-way through, but it's now Christmas in my part of the world (Merry Christmas!) so I might not be able to get to this for another few days. Cheers, Jon (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jonathanischoice: Still a few hours here! I'm more than happy to extend the hold for a while, say until New Year's Day? Would that work for you? Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 22:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

That would be good - I've just got back to it today. Cheers — Jon (talk) 10:10, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: nearly but not quite finished, can you let me know what you think so far? Cheers — Jon (talk) 00:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jonathanischoice, great progress. Just a few more points. Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 02:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: side note... I'm trying to get hold of this resource (Dictionary for the Modern Clarinetist) which could be a good RS for remaining points, but I might not get to it in time; apparently the full text is available through ProQuest but my library doesn't get to it, and I won't be able to interloan the physical book until after 8 January. Are you able to get it? — Jon (talk) 08:55, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

It appears to be available on archive.org with a free membership. Can you get it through that? Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 09:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: happy new year :) thanks for finding that, I didn't think to look on IA. I've attempted to address the remaining points, where possible, and marked them with a yellow (!) icon for convenience. Zero luck with images or sound samples so far, alas. Jon (talk) 20:32, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy new year Jon. Seeing as all other points are resolved and User:Mscuthbert has been inactive for two weeks, I'm going to pass this review. Other discussions about new images and sounds can be discussed on the talk page: for now I am aware that the review has been open for two weeks and content that locating the best quality media has been attempted. Congratulations on another GA! All the best, Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 00:35, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Comments

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   §Lede:

   Turn the two links to clarinet and clarinet family into a single link to clarinet family over both words - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   common B♭ clarinet, and pitched a minor seventh higher: remove comma since we are still discussing the Bb - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   Around the beginning of the 19th century several: comma needed after century for clarity - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   More generally I would like to see the lede expanded to include more points from §Construction and §Repertoire - S

   Have had an initial go, thoughts? — Jon (talk)

   Good start, maybe mention some of the makers and more famous composers (Verdi, Bartók)? - S

   Including infobox things here:

   Arguably "Wind Woodwind" is not necessary since woodwind is linked above. I think you can remove these but keep "single-reed" - S

   have indicated a classification heirarchy, but this is not done on other instrument pages, so maybe you're right? — Jon (talk)

   I think the arrows work quite well as a compromise, not entirely sure on the MOS for this - S

   Clarinet might not be needed to be linked in "related instruments" since clarinet family is linked below. If it is kept, I would like a link to Bb clarinet or Bb clarinet specifically - S

   Done (fixed other things here too) — Jon (talk)

   §History:

   Could we have links to the musicologists mentioned in the first sentence? - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   "Small" should be in italics, not quotes per MOS:WAW - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   Of the three highest and smallest "octave" clarinets [...] only 28 centimetres (11 in) long: I think a split is called for after "bands" - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   Much better, thanks - S

   §Construction:

   Wiki-link mouthpiece and bell - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   larger clarinets, or even: this last comma seems a bit too much separation - S

   Have reworded sentence for hopefully better clarity. — Jon (talk)

   §Repertoire:

   Do we need to know that go featured other tangentially related instruments? - S

   Maybe not, but it's kind of fun... Vérifications also has piccolo, musette and Casio SK-1 — Jon (talk)

   I think it's fine on reflection - S

   I think the contemporary works list is unnecessary since its already in prose form - S

   Me too, fixed, moved Vérifications into prose — Jon (talk)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   No copyvio found in internet sources with Earwig's - S

   Source spot checks for copyvio and text-source integrity (copyvio only checked when mentioned):

   Ref 2 (Shackleton 2001): pass for verifiability. Maybe consider mentioning that Shackleton also calls these octave clarinets - S

   He clarifies later that Tschaikov (p43) clarifies that "octave" clarinets refer to the three highest in A B♭ and C, an octave above the more common regular-sized (soprano) clarinets in those keys.

   Ref 3 (Lawson 1995): pass for verifiability - S

   Ref 4 (Baines 1977): pass for verifiability - S

   Ref 5a&b (Rice 2017): both passes for verifiability - S

   Ref 6 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability, perhaps also mention he calls them "little" at some points - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   Ref 9 (Rice 2017): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S

   Ref 10 (Forsyth 1914): pass for verifiability - S

   Ref 11 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio, though is there any reason not to use the given spelling of picksüsses Hölzl (or picksüßes Hölzl as is given in other sources)? - S

   Fixed, as in the cited ref — Jon (talk)

   Ref 14a&b (Baines 1977): a is a fail for verifiability but a pass for copyvio, page doesn't mention any time-frames or countries with regards to military bands. b is also a fail for verifiability for aforementioned reasons and as it doesn't mention doubling the piccolo flute line, only being able to play into piccolo range - S

   That's because for 14a I was using the wrong ref (now 11b, Tschaikov 1995 p.53), and for now I can't remember where I read that it largely copies the piccolo line in band parts, but I will find it and update the other ref (for now, ref 15) — Jon (talk)

   I've given up on the piccolo factoid; I can't recall where I read it at the time, and now can't find it. — Jon (talk)

   Ref 16 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S

   Ref 18 (Tschaikov 1995): pass for verifiability and copyvio - S

   Can we have author-links for Nicholas Shackleton, Colin Lawson, Cecil Forsyth and Anthony Baines? - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   "Hans-Joachim Hespos website", "website" is not needed - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   What makes The Clarinet BBoard a reliable source? - S

   It really isn't, but I have been hoping to find this in a more reliable place, without luck so far. Can always remove/revise the claim I suppose. — Jon (talk)

   Unless a better source can be found, I think the statement should be removed - S

   Rephrased, cites a Leblanc museum specimen built 1983 — Jon (talk)

   YouTube and Discogs are unreliable and shouldn't be used to support that text - S

   Moved to §External links — Jon (talk)

   The first paragraph of §Construction and the last of §Repertoire need citations - S

   Reworked the last repertoire paragraph, found a choir history article and Cailliet Grove entry. There's literally nothing written about the construction of A♭ clarinets, but at least the one-piece body segment is self-evident from photos in manufacturer catalogs/websites, and I'm thinking it's bordering on WP:SKYBLUE? Have used a web-ref to an example museum item which states the obvious.

   When the publisher is Cambridge University Press, the location isn't needed - S

   Fixed — Jon (talk)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Although short, the article holds up when compared to other literature (Cambridge Companion, Grove, etc.) - S

   I was hesitant on the inclusion of other piccolo here, but on reflection I think this is fine. It makes sense to address them as well in this article - S

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Not sure how you could be biased towards a clarinet, but the articles seems neutral. Bias is not present when discussing makers - S

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Just a question here, is the content dispute detailed at talk page section "Military bands and composers in Italy" completely over? A simple yes/no is fine - S

   I'm not certain; it's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding something, and I'd be interested what Mscuthbert thinks about things. — Jon (talk)

   Seeing as the user is inactive and it was quite a while ago, I'm AGFing this criterion and passing it - S

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images tagged properly with CC licenses - S

   Is there any way to get a non-free sound file here, or an external link to an appropriate site? - S

   @Mscuthbert: would you be interested in recording something for the article? Otherwise I haven't been able to find anything on Commons or elsewhere that is compatibly-licensed (public domain, CC, etc.) — Jon (talk)

   Can a better picture of reeds be found than File:B-flat e-flat a-flat reeds.jpg, which looks quite low quality? - S

   @Mscuthbert: I don't think it's that bad, but could you take another photo of your reeds? I'm assuming Schminnte means the reflection/glare. — Jon (talk)

   Per MOS:CAPLENGTH, a caption is not needed for this infobox photo - S

   Done — Jon (talk)

   Caption 3: Note the greater difference in size between A♭ and E♭ than between E♭ and B♭: why should we note this? It isn't mentioned in text and seems unnecessary to say. - S

   Fair enough. — Jon (talk)

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.