Talk:5-Hydroxytryptophan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Risks and Side Effects Deleted

I deleted the whole Risks and Side Effects section as it was factually incorrect beyond correction. Nearly every other sentence contained factually incorrect information which does not reflect the current medical consensus. I will go through this article and add citation needed tags to the statements I am unable to verify and delete those statements which strongly contradict the consensus of the studies that have been performed to date. Too much of this article seems to be original research. The 5th citation is a Usernet post... The first resource is not even about 5-HTP but rather tryptophan and has been demonstrated to be invalid by every review and instance of peer reviewed research to date.

This article is not only terrible, but is incorrect; I will attempt to improve the article to the degree I am able. Agalmic (talk) 23:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Risks and Side Effects are Understated

There is very little discussion of risks and side-effects associated with this agent. Experts should contribute more here. 142.162.15.238 19:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The risksare overstated, not understated. In fact most of these "risks" constitute original research. These absurd alarmist statements need to be supported by citation of peer review journel articles; not by usernet posts. Agalmic (talk) 23:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Question

Is 5-HTP really an amino acid? I know L-Tryptophan is, but I was under the impression that 5-HTP is not. jkl_sem 12:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Source for psychostimulant study?

The bit about 5-HTP treatment for cognitive deficits resulting from amphetamine use has reference 11 attached to it, but reference 11 doesn't talk about amphetamines at all, it's the abstract of a study involving 5-HTP and THC. 67.84.146.125 05:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right, I hope someone can fix this, I wouldn't want to remove the whole statement just because somebody has accidently cited the wrong paper or something. --Mark PEA 17:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Who ever did this citations was an idiot; I am considering re-writing the whole article from scratch as it would take less time than verifying these citations. Some of the citations were copy and pasted from the bibliography of articles and clearly were not read by the person making the citation! With hundreds of pubmed articles on the topic it is not acceptable to use non-hypertexted journel articles, pop magazines and usernet posts! Agalmic (talk) 23:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Something very strange happening with this article...?

Have a look at these two revisions: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5-Hydroxytryptophan&oldid=127717223 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5-Hydroxytryptophan&oldid=127760178

Is it just my browser, or is the second (more recent) one missing most of the article? Can someone clear this up for me? --henryaj 10:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Woops, I've fixed it now. I added a comment tag without the appropriate closing tag. KonradG 11:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Constructive Criticism is Encouraged

I just added a bunch of PubMed citations r.e. metabolism of 5-HTP, B6 (PLP), etc.

I'm not sure the comment "Bad Article" is warranted. Nor am I convinced that citations need to be research, per se. Citations to historical use and clinician experience, anecdotal as they may be, can provide both context and scope. That said, I guess the preceding comment worked. It's shaped up quite nicely, I think.

Following the citations, I see that L-tryptophan appears to have been re-legalized by the FDA. X14n 07:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for adding the factually reliable citations to this article! At this point, if there are no objections, I will take the 'not verified|article' tag off the main article page. If there are sections which research is still in question, please do tag the section for follow-up. -- ViaBest 17:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Bad article

This article is in a very bad quality. Much more is needed in terms of proper references. What "natural healing professionals" claim is not important, the main focus must be what has been shown about 5-HTP by credible research, and it must be cited. --Per Olofsson 23:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This article has been updated with cite's and credible research. I would be curious if Per Olofsson (see previous comments) would still assert this article is 'bad' -- ViaBest 17:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Contridictions/Error in article?

Was tryptophan or L-tryptophan banned?

• "...L-tryptophan, was banned in the United States because of a tainted batch..."
• "Tryptophan...contaminated shipment...ban it as an over-the-counter supplement."

And then also this which references something previously in the article that must have been removed.

• "Recently, however, as noted above, pharmaceutical grade L-tryptophan has become available" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.109.251.51 (talk • contribs) 12:02, 6 July 2006

The article is ambiguous, but not in error. For the purposes of this article, tryptophan and L-tryptophan are the same thing. Almost all amino acids of biological origin are of the L- form. Stevewylie 03:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

Just a message to thank whoever made the warning about too much 5 htp and seratonin syndrome. The guideline is to never take more than 300 mg in a 24-hour period. Unfortunately, I have 400 mg in my system right now. So, I'll hold off on taking any tomorrow. I think I'll be fine, but this was a good warning to read because I was considering upping my dosage to 500 mg! Thank God I read this page! THANK YOU!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.73 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 31 August 2005

realy good stuff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.69.247.32 (talk • contribs) 07:55, 14 March 2005

I don't think that it should be necessary to read Wikipedia articles to understand the correct dosage of a medication, as Wikipedia does not provide medical advice. Please always read the dosage and intake on the label/leaflet. It is very hard to induce the serotonine-syndrome by solely taking 5-HTP, however please remember that neuroactive drugs (especially this class) have a ceiling effect and the "beneficial" effects do not increase with the dosage, however the side effects do. High dosages of any substance, or combination, could induce liver and/or kidney failure in certain people. PLEASE be careful.--nicowalker 22:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

---

I have a question. What some may consider a side effect, others may consider a desired effect. Would going above the prescribed limit possibly give the hallucinogenic effects mentioned in the article? It is an interesting line of thought, isn't that so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShreeMulay (talk • contribs) 15:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Are there ongoing clinical trials for 5-HTP?

Slow movement in clinical trials for this agent is an interesting phenomenon. Economic analysis would suggest that this would be an obvious thing to do.

The US federal government is probably corrupted beyond recovery on this issue. Have other countries organized stronger initiatives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.80.7 (talk • contribs) 04:21, 3 August 2005

--The absence of FDA clinical trials for 5-HTP has nothing to do with corruption or conspiracy, but everything to do with economics. 5-HTP can't be patented. FDA clinical trials are horrendously expensive, and drug companies only undertake those costs if they anticipate financial return. Without a patent, any manufacturer could make a cheap knock-off. Witness Claratin: it used to be a highly profitable patent-protected medicine costing approximately 30x what it does now. No unpatentable chemical will ever be developed into a drug in the United States because the legal and economic systems make such drugs unprofitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevewylie (talk • contribs) 02:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

how long has 5-HTP been on the market?

Also the article states that this is a naturally occoring drug. In what foods is it naturallly occoring? Markwusinich (talk) 05:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

This is slightly non-NPOV

I'm no pharmaceutical fanboy but this is not a very encyclopedic statement: "Pharmaceuticals companies definitely have a vested interest in keeping knowledge about this agent at a minimum." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.166.251 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 29 September 2005

• I understand the above statement if very difficult to substantiate with sources, however, I question how factually accurate it may show to be in the future. With the undeniable positive mental health benefit of 5-HTP, coupled with the extremely low occurrence of side effects; there is no question such an over-the-counter antidepressant drug would severely cut into the billion-dollar anti-depressant market. - ViaBest 17:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and removed it for that reason. -D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.146.12 (talk • contribs) 06:51, 14 November 2005

Also "MDMA and 5-HTP information and advice" is a nice touch but it's not hyperlinked to text in the article, so it should be the bottom of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.166.251 (talk • contribs) 11:04, 29 September 2005

• On the subject of NPOV, I feel it should be dually noted that MDMA causes the same biochemical imbalance (depleted serotonin levels), that can be linked to clinical depression. From the 5-HTP article, I feel there may, incorrectly, be a bit of miss-perception linking illegal drug use, and 5-HTP which is simpley not the case. - ViaBest

Serotonin syndrome? Says who?

Where did the information about serotonin syndrome caused by 5-HTP come from? I have never seen a single documented case of serotonin syndrome being caused by 5-HTP. Someone should provide a reference for this, or take it down because it is false information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.23.189 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 18 October 2005

• I, for one, am thankful that this warning was listed on this page because as someone who was taking 400mg of 5-HTP a day, I was indeed experiencing everything that is listed on the page about serotonin syndrome. You might not have documented case information about 5-HTP being related to serotinin syndrome, but I have first-hand experience and I'm thankful that I read this warning -- because I had been considering upping my dosage. Therefore, I don't think that the reference should be taken out because it may help other people. Maybe it should just be refined to something like "it may cause serotinin syndrome...." Thanks. -- Anonymous 5-HTP User — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.73 (talk • contribs) 04:16, 6 November 2005

• Added two references to serotonin syndrome recognition--it isn't hard to anticipate that 5-HTP should be considered as a possible agent for causing serotonin syndrome and certainly a warning that 5-HTP could generate such a condition is more than appropriate, not to mention accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.146.12 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 14 November 2005

• I changed it to a warning, combined with a note that it can cause nausea and vomiting, as one can see by looking over at Erowid. 95% of the body's serotonin resides in the gut, so this isn't exactly surprising. [1] Minimum toxic dose in dogs is 23.6 mg/kg, which would be pretty high when scaled to a human, much higher than 300 mg. [2] Simonster 05:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• I've read on other sites that trials (don't have a link, and they were only small scale) have been done as high as 900-1000mg! The general consensus seems to be that the risk of seratonin syndrome is only fairly significant if 5-HTP is taken along with anti-depressants. (Says somebody who is currently taking 50mg of 5-HTP along with an anti-depressant). Somebody taking 400mg a day should probably be under a doctors supervision anyway (in my humble opinion). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.184.183 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 22 August 2006

• I think it would be worthwhile for someone to dig up references to the small-scale clinical trials mentioned by the previous user. If those trials observed limited adverse effects at 2-3x the typical dose, then that information should allay fears of serotonin syndrome at lower doses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevewylie (talk • contribs) 04:38, 2 November 2006

Q: "Where did the information about serotonin syndrome caused by 5-HTP come from?"
A: Some idiot who has not read any of the peer reviewed research on this topic.
Q: " I have never seen a single documented case of serotonin syndrome being caused by 5-HTP. "
A: That is because there is no documented evidence.
We need to find the person who is making these edits and carefully review their contributions to ensure that no more pseudo-science orginal research is added to this article. Agalmic (talk) 23:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's pretty obvious 5-HTP can cause serotonin syndrome provided the dose is high enough (or if mixed with other serotonergic agents); though, you'd need quite a bit of it to do so. I've taken as much as 1 gram of it at once myself without it 'feeling' anywhere near lethal. Here are some refs:

• 5-Hydroxytryptophan toxicosis in dogs: 21 cases (1989-1999).
• Memantine, an NMDA antagonist, prevents the development of hyperthermia in an animal model for serotonin syndrome.
• Diazepam and chlormethiazole attenuate the development of hyperthermia in an animal model of the serotonin syndrome.
• Characterization of serotonin-toxicity syndrome (toxidrome) elicited by 5-hydroxy-l-tryptophan in clorgyline-pretreated rats.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by El3ctr0nika (talk • contribs) 17:06, 23 September 2009

5-HTP & Blood brain barrier

-At a lecture recently while doing behavioural neuroscience, we were told that 5-HTP does not cross the blood brain barrier when ingested orally & the health food shops talk a lot of crap... Is there any evidence saying against what the lecturer said? (Outside of Wiki of course)....Random viewer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.132.12.83 (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 April 2006

-- Not sure who told you that, but they are in serious error. In fact, it is Serotonin that cannot pass the blood-brain barrier (which is why you can't just take, say, a "Serotonin pill" and expect it to do anything for depression). However, without 5-HTP being able to pass into the brain, your brain would have a lot of trouble manufacturing Serotonin in the first place! In essence, Serotonin cannot pass the blood-brain barrier, but Trytophan and 5-HTP (its metabolite) -- both which are used in the process of manufacturing the body's Serotonin -- most certainly can. For that matter, 5-HTP passes the blood-brain barrier more readily than even Trytophan itself does, making it more reliable as a suppliment for that reason.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.146.12 (talk • contribs) 06:00, 15 May 2006

Further, I'd ask your lecturer just what they think is the building block for Serotonin itself. Also, ask them where in the body it is manufactured and, how ... if Trytophan and 5-HTP are the essential components used by the brain to make it... how it could be that 5-HTP does not cross the blood-brain barrier and still manage to accomplish this monumental feat? I would remark, I'm not very keen on most "health food shop" claims, but your lecturer is just wrong on this point at the least. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.146.12 (talk • contribs) 06:12, 15 May 2006

Erm... L-tryptophan crosses the BBB, then is converted to 5-HTP by tryptophan hydroxylase. Did you think that Trp and 5-HTP are needed in co-existance for 5-HT production? Please read this comprehensive paper on the subject. --Mark PEA (talk) 14:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that one or more of the external links provided in the article here (the studies specifically) will cite that 5-HTP can pass the blood-brain barrier and is used in the manufacture of Serotonin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.146.12 (talk • contribs) 06:12, 15 May 2006

---This should be cited if it is in dispute. Just saying "it must be in the citations somewhere" isn't up to wikipedia standards. If no one can find a reference in a scientific study, it should remain removed. This is in dispute in many fields online. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.151.21 (talk • contribs) 08:27, 23 August 2006

--It isn't in dispute, so there's no need to cite sources. Wikipedia shouldn't need to disprove every crackpot theory out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevewylie (talk • contribs) 02:37, 4 November 2006

I just read that serotonin is blocked by the blood-brain barrier (and only crosses when it's being "ferried") and is greatly broken down when ingested. But I read that (L-)5-HTP can easily cross the blood-brain barrier by itself. The lecturer is likely full of shit. Demand better education, you're undoubtedly paying a lot for it. —63.249.110.34 (talk) 00:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Whoever said 5-HTP can't cross the BBB is a fucking idiot. El3ctr0nika (talk) 06:30, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Instead of ad hominem attacks on anyone who dare claim that 5-HTP doesn't cross the BBB, how about providing an actual scientific reference? I found a study which shows that 5-HTP competes with L-DOPA at the L-type amino acid transporter in vitro [3], but there is surely an in vivo study using radiolabelled 5-HTP somewhere. To the person who said that a reference isn't needed, please read: WP:BURDEN.

Sorry if my reply seems provocative, but we must remember that Wikipedia is about verifying facts. We can't do that without sources. --Mark PEA (talk) 14:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Renamed to 5-hydroxytryptophan, chembox, metabolic pathway

I renamed this page to 5-hydroxytryptophan, making 5-HTP a redirect. I implemented Template:Chembox_simple_organic, took away the Chemistry section, and made new images for the chemical structure and tryptophan-serotonin pathway. However, I have since uploaded new images on Wikimedia Commons, but I can't replace the old ones since my account is too new on there. I've put in requests to do that on the help desk though, so the new versions should be up soon. Jesse 01:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Migraine relief

Doing some internet reading suggesting 5HTP aids in Migraine releif?? http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/headachemigraine/a/Migraine.htm?? Anybody agree?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.147.171.43 (talk • contribs) 13:55, 13 June 2006

--a paper was written on this: Boiardi A, Picotti GB, Di Giulio AM, et al. Platelet met-enkephalin immunoreactivity and 5-hydroxytryptamine concentrations in migraine patients: effects of 5-hydroxy-tryptophan, amitriptyline and chlorimipramine treatment.Cephalalgia. 1984; 4:81-84. If you needed a cite for it. I think it would make a good addition. --MerKaBa 15:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Since 5-HT_1D agonists are used as migraine / cluster headache treatments, it seems obvious that 5-HTP would have some significance in treating migraines. --Mark PEA 10:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hospitalization

A friend of mine was just rushed to the hospital after taking one 200 mg capsule of 5-HTP. I'll write the follow up from this when he gets back, but this ultimately changes the comment about no reported hospitalizations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YusufMJH (talk • contribs) 07:52, 14 September 2006

• I wish your friend the best, but if you do post something about it, please to not add any of that information to the main page, since it would violate the Wikipedia policy of no independent research. If you want to add it here, then there's no problem with that, in my opinion. Also keep in mind, that aside the from the "no independent research" policy this case does not really have much clinical relevance with a sample size of 1. So by all means, feel free to report what happened, but do not make changes to the page simply based on one person's experience. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.192.135.35 (talk • contribs) 23:15, 10 October 2006

FOLLOW UP: The comment was intended for the talk page only, as you said, but thank you for re-emphasizing this point about independent research. My friend's hospitalization was not linked to his 5-HTP consumption, which was his theory only. The medical practitioner did not link his symptoms to the 5-HTP, even after he presented this theory. -- YusufMJH, 10 December 2006

• I have several friends and family who take ~ 300mg of 5-HTP daily. I am a bit confused, and curious as to what symptoms your friend experienced which cause his desire to seek emergency medical treatment. -- ViaBest 17:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the pharmacology section of this article

I have located two sources which seem to directly and indirectly refute the claim that 5-HTP should be used with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor "in order to prevent elevated levels of serotonin in the bloodstream (and their side effects, which include emesis and potentially fibrosis of the heart)"; for instance, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7619676 there it says that they gave 6 healthy males (I assume they mean human males) doses of 5-HTP "on two occasions in a randomised cross-over study.", and "This occurred without significant changes in blood 5-HT (serotonin) levels measured in platelet-rich plasma."

Another study, which investigated the effects of L-Tryptophan in men ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1365857&dopt=Abstract ) found that "Whole blood serotonin levels were almost unaffected by the Trp (L-Tryptophan) infusions.". Albeit L-Tryptophan is only a precursor to 5-HTP, nevertheless the data seems relevant since as a precursor, naturally, L-Tryptophan is converted into 5-HTP by the body.

Would someone with some expertise on the subject please step in and make the appropriate corrections if corrections are warranted? Or just give your opinion and maybe we can come to a consensus. Thank you. --EdgarEdwinCayce 09:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please insert this article into the WikiPharma project ? The substance is generally a diet supplement, but for many chronic diseases it is used massively. (See below).
The L-Tryptophan page/ is classified as chemical and biochemical (aminoacid) in the correct classification. The 5-HTA, a subproduct, should be classified into the pharmacology category also. In the UK L-Tryptophan's legal status is P and 5-HTA (plant extracted) is classed as GSL.--nicowalker 14:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

EdgarEdwinCayce; you are correct, someone has been putting none-sense into this article. Feel free to delete or modify anything in the article you can find a citation against. Agalmic (talk) 23:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

5-HTP is a godsend. I have started taking it and after years of depression and overeating, I am free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tulcak (talk • contribs) 03:44, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

This drug works wonders for fibromyalgia

I have been struggling with fibromyalgia/chronic stress syndrome for about 3 years now.

I couldn't drive more than 10 miles before becoming very tired. Working just 8 hours a day, I would be completely knocked out by the time I get home. I used to run my own business working at least 12 hours a day, sometimes 18 hours.

I started taking 5-HTP last week and boy! I drove like 50 miles in a day. Shopped all day the next day. Washed and waxed my SUV the following day! I think I have my life back.

If you have fibromyalgia/CFS, you owe it to yourself to try this drug. It is cheap and over the counter.

-Sola — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.161.223.62 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 27 November 2006

"This supplement worked wonders for YOUR FMS." That is certainly not the consensus among FMS sufferers. The danger is that stories like that of "getting your life back" with a cheap OTC supplement makes it MUCH harder for those of us who need real care from our physicians to get it because it makes this very real syndrome look like it's not real.Spookiewon (talk) 19:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Serotonin Syndrome

Despite all the warnings, serotonin syndrome is essentially impossible without an MAOI and an SRI[4]. Any link to 5-HTP seems unrealistic. KonradG 00:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

What is serotonin syndrome? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.4.24 (talk) 10:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

See Serotonin syndrome I hope that helps. Agalmic (talk) 11:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Well, serotonin syndrome requires serotonin to start with, and then has an MAOI (MAO-A inhibitor, I think) or (S)SRI multiply that serotonin's effect... If you have low serotonin to begin with you're not at risk. If you increase your serotonin levels you increase your risk. 5-HTP increases your serotonin levels. What do you mean "any link" to 5-HTP is "unrealistic"? Would you dare take 500mg 5-HTP q.d. for a week then gorge yourself on tulum? (Please don't, because if you die you won't be able to edit WP.) —63.249.110.34 (talk) 22:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake — tulum is high in tyramine, which will also (as well as too much serotonin) give you problems when combined with a MAOI. It is not itself a MOAI. —63.249.110.34 (talk) 00:47, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Tryptophan metabolites linked to bladder carcinoma.

5-htp is an intermediate in the metabolism of tryptophan to serotonin. The question arises, what is the potential of 5-HTP to be amongst those set of tryptophan metabolites linked to bladder cancer[5]? Is there any research existing linking 5-HTP to the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShreeMulay (talk • contribs) 15:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I didn't read the whole study (read: only looked at the table of activity/inactivity). It appeas that kynurenine is the responsible agent, not surprising as an aromatic amine. Whether 5-HTP is prone to the same metabolism as L-tryptophan I have no idea, perhaps the 5-OH group prevents the action of the enzyme which converts tryptophan to kynurenine, but maybe it doesn't. Further research needed and I expect there is some out there. --Mark PEA (talk) 17:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this article seems to rave about 5HTP and not show the criticisms that it does nothing or has risks. Sticky Parkin 00:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

This article use to discuss the theoretical risk of cardiovascular issues that might occur due to 5HTP converting to serotonin in the blood. I don't know why this was removed. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 00:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The whole criticism section was removed (see above). I think you can find a source for the heart thing on pubmed if you'd like to add it. Sticky Parkin 01:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Removal of reliably sourced information with at least one false edit summary

WP:MEDRS was not meant to exclude small, suggestive primary research when reviews don't exist. It's not a way to delete things that an individual does not like. Wikipedia has a bias towards including reliably sourced information, even if it sometimes has to be forked into subpages.

I didn't examine all the deleted material carefully, but I did glance at this. OrangeMarlin said there one was study (n=15), but there were two, each with n=50. II | (t - c) 22:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

We cannot synthesize statements based on one badly written article from obscure, unknown scientists. I could not find one researcher who validated their ideas. This is a perfect example of attempting to give undue weight to fringe ideas. And one of them was n=15. n=50 is equally bad. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

No, both trials had 50 subjects. I checked it again. One abstract notes that 15 subjects had side-effects. Also, let's keep our terms straight. It is impossible to synthesize with one source. Synthesis involves joining two sources to make a synthetic statement. Further, there's no way that there's an original research problem here, because these articles state exactly what they're being cited as saying. So I'm guessing that you're questioning their reliability.

You've removed 6 Pubmed-indexed research articles and 1 Pubmed-indexed review, but plenty of primary research articles remain cited in the pharmacology and side-effects section. So you can't say that these are unreliable because they're primary research articles. This amounts to a very selective, IDONTLIKEIT approach. I'll bring it up on WP:RS/N and WP:MED. II | (t - c) 07:57, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

As an update to this, I'm looking into the articles deleted further before bringing them up elsewhere. I've found that another, PMID 16023217, is a review. Do you have access to it, OrangeMarlin? I would appreciate glancing through it. It supported the dosage information. Also, I don't mind the deletion of the other review, since it was basically superseded by the Cochrane review. II | (t - c)

Risks?

Again, are they being overstated? Seems like elevated 5-htp levels in the blood do not equate with dangerously elevated (as in cardiac fibrosis-inducing) 5-ht levels? http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art604&zTYPE=2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.165.239.246 (talk) 10:38, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The above article from VRP.com is interesting, but this company is a seller of nutritional supplements and it can be argued that they are not coming from a neutral point of view.

The risks of 5-HTP to the heart valve have been documented in at least two English-language studies. There are more details and references in the German Wikipedia de:5-HTP article with respect to the risks under the section Theoretische Gefahr von Fibrosen.

An expert opinion on this would be very welcome. I also posed the question on 5-HTP heart damage risk to a licensed pharmacist in Germany, who was already well aware of the risk, so it seems the German medical industry is conscious of the risk. 5-HTP is available only as a prescription medication in Germany. The German drug fact sheets would be a good reference if they are available online.

I do not think the risk is at all overstated here; in fact I would support a more prominent warning in the article, with more references.

PolarYukon (talk) 22:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I have researched 5-HTP extensively on the internet and cannot find a dose relative to how much in mg does it take to cause cardiac problems or any of the other side effects. There is some reference to a serotonin-secreting tumor called hindgut which secrets serotonin in large amounts causing pulmonary hypertension and fibrosis valve problems somewhat like phen-fen did when it was taken off the market. But the author states there are no evidence in the literature that states that the carcinoid tumor secretes 5-HTP. There is so much confusion regarding this amino acid necessary for brain function it would be nice if we had a couple of good studies that also addressed dosing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ybonniy (talk • contribs) 14:15, 16 May 2009

Speaking specifically to the phrase "5-HTP can cause hypertension by increasing plasma renin activity," if you go to the website cited and read the abstract, the dosage used on rats in the study was 25mg/kg. This would be a dose of 1875 mg for the average human. That's significantly larger than normal doses which run between 50mg and 600mg. The largest dose I can find in any human study is 900mg per day and that amount is rare. Since the study noted requires payment for further review, it is not possible to check for other inequities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.131.102.230 (talk) 19:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

5-HTP & carbidopa can still increase plasma 5-HT

Can someone please remove the "original research?" tags that come directly after citations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.94.212 (talk) 15:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

5-HT can pass from the brain to the blood via the serotonin transporter, so co-administering an aromatic decarboxylase inhibitor with 5-HTP may still elevate plasma 5-HT levels [6]. I'm posting this here as it doesn't fit in the current article, but is definitely useful information with respect to safety of 5-HTP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark PEA (talk • contribs) 14:42, 23 September 2009.

Wording in first paragraph makes 5HTP sound merely like a hoax

The first paragraph says that 5htp is marketed for a wide variety of uses, but that it has not been scientifically proven. However, later in the article, the author writes that many studies have shown it to be effective, though not studies of high enough quality. Furthermore, high quality studies have shown 5HTP effective when combined with tryptophan, which is another precursor to serotonin in the brain. So there have been many scientific studies supporting 5HTP, though none entirely rigorous.

The last sentence in the first paragraph gives the impression that there is not really any scientific support for 5htp, making it sound like an entirely speculative claim, which is a distortion of the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.99.151 (talk) 01:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Use as a dietary supplement

I am sure that 5-HTP has helped some people but I seriously question its use as a dietary supplement. Often, the use of such is not communicated to the doctor, so drug interactions could be a problem. And if one looks at the literature, the efficacy of 5-HTP is not very much supported. I would therefore no longer recommend 5-HTP as a supplement because then people think, it is harmless and pop a few more. Its use is not recommended in combination with SSRIs and other drugs (and many drug interactions have not even been studied). Also, of course, it is natural, extracted from natural sources but that does not make it harmless, really. You can overdose on 5-HTP, and people forget that. No dietary source would supply so much 5-HTP as these tablet do, so in that sense, it is not even natural. Furthermore, it is not exactly cheap if you compare it to generic versions of regular antidepressants. At least, its use should be discussed with the treating physician because in the end, it is just like any other tablet, just less studied. And also, it is sometimes offered in the strangest formulations, combined with herbs and other ingredients, what about that? How can we trace side effects, if there is not even a registration for these products, and the formulation can change at any time? I would really recommend the German language entries for 5-HTP, which are more critical towards its use as a supplement. (85.3.236.154 (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC))

First, this talk section is not a forum to express your opinions, rants or beliefs. Second, all that matters is that you can verify a statement with reliable sources. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:57, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

It seems that 85.3.236.154 has used not only the talk section, but also the article, to express personal opinions. See the edit dated April 28, 2011. "I would therefore no longer recommend 5-HTP as a supplement" on the talk page became "its use is no longer recommended" in the article. Shall I undo the edit to which I referred or would someone already editing the article like to do it? John Link (talk) 22:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Not serotonin

The statement: "Heart valve damage or disease (cardiac fibrosis)," and its associated references, 19 and 20, refer to serotonin. Those studies don't mention 5-htp. As far as we know, 5-htp is a pre-cursor to serotonin, but it is specifically NOT serotonin. I don't see how these articles are relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plamtruw (talk • contribs) 22:06, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Since 5-HTP is metabolized to serotonin (5-HT) and taking 5-HTP raises 5-HT levels in the blood and 5-HT metabolites in the urine, it is reasonable to regard 5-HTP ingestion as like ingesting 5-HT, which is a known risk factor for valve disease. SBHarris 00:33, 26 September 2011 (UTC)