Talk:The Brooklyn Tower

The Brooklyn Tower has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 9, 2023. (Reviewed version).

A fact from The Brooklyn Tower appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 February 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Brooklyn Tower, the first supertall building in Brooklyn, was described as the "Empire State Building of Brooklyn"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Brooklyn Tower.

Wikipedia

Historic sites Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Historic sites, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of historic sites on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Historic sitesWikipedia:WikiProject Historic sitesTemplate:WikiProject Historic sitesHistoric sites articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

New York City Low‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Skyscrapers Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skyscrapers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to skyscrapers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkyscrapersWikipedia:WikiProject SkyscrapersTemplate:WikiProject SkyscrapersSkyscraper articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

untitled

I am going to work on improving this article. There has been sustained coverage of attempts by JDS (and, I believe, other developers, previously) to assemble this parcel over the course of several years. Also, one need look no further than the template at the bottom of the page to see that 340 Flatbush falls well within the realm of buildings that can be predicted: 2019 is only three years away, and construction is likely to begin soon, given that JDS finished purchasing air rights this week, and their current major project, 111 West 57th Street is in full swing, to be finished by the end of next year. There is an enormous amount of precedent for coverage of proposed, approved, under construction, and even cancelled skyscrapers on Wikipedia; as such, 340 Flatbush should be kept.--MainlyTwelve (talk) 17:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

9 DeKalb Avenue

In an article yesterday, The New York Times lists this new building's address as "9 DeKalb Avenue", which is the current address of the Dime Savings Bank, which I've read is planned to be re-purposed as the new building's main entrance. It says that one of the buildings that would be demolished to make way for construction is "340 Flatbush Avenue Extension". The real estate website Curbed seems to use both address when running stories. I'm not ready to propose a name change, but either way "340 Flatbush Avenue" probably isn't the most accurate option we have, since that's missing the more accurate designation as "Extension". Thoughts?-- Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 15:34, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure the name will eventually be changed, whether it is represented by a different address (such as 9 DeKalb Avenue) or an assigned name that doesn't relate to an address (such as the Central Park Tower, in Manhattan, or The Hub, in Brooklyn). Point being I think it's safe to keep it as is until the next round of news, which will probably be after the Landmarks hearing.--MainlyTwelve (talk) 17:12, 20 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That said, if you feel it should be changed, I would not object.--MainlyTwelve (talk) 17:15, 20 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it will probably have a fancy name at some later date, but also don't think its a big deal to move the article multiple times to try to keep it as the most accurate name.-- Patrick, _oѺ^∞ 14:28, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:07, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Brooklyn Tower/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos (talk · contribs) 19:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May as well get this one out the queue too. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

This may be just that I'm a dope, but the name situation in the lead is confusing to me. Was the name changed from 340 Flatbush to 9 DeKalb and then to the Brooklyn Tower? Or is Brooklyn Tower the unofficial-but-common name and 9 DeKalb is the real official name?
- Yes, the name was changed from 340 Flatbush to 9 DeKalb to the Brooklyn Tower. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nitpick, first sentence of para 2 seems to fit better with para 1
- This sentence is in paragraph 2 because that is where the building's architecture is described. The building actually consists of two parts: the 93-story residential section and the bank building. Nonetheless, I've moved mentions of the architects to the first para. Epicgenius (talk) 16:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The lead doesn't really make clear that the tower is under construction still. It eventually sort of implies it with "The building will contain," but shouldn't that be explicit?
- I have clarified this now. The building was still under construction when I expanded the article a while ago, but I think I just forgot to update it. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
General nitpick, there are some duplicate links in the body, at least according to the duplicate link script. It's not GACR but for FAC purposes you may wanna check for those.

Architecture

The rendering sandwiches with the lengthy infobox. Can it be moved?
- Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The lead says the bank building is preserved in the base of the tower, but this section says the tower is next to the building. I'm sure this is just a wording variation thing but can they be changed to be consistent one way or the other? It feels contradictory.
- I have modified this now. Technically, the bank building is at the base of the tower, but the tower was built immediately behind the bank, rather than right above it. It's like how Fifth Avenue is the base of the Empire State Building, even though the ESB wasn't built on top of 5th Avenue. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"façade largely contains" why largely? from the photos it looks like it's only a bit of pink granite before the white starts.
- Fixed. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You may wanna say Roman god Mercury for those who aren't super familiar with classical mythology
- Done. Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Context for Lee Lawrie?
- I'm confused by what you mean. If you were asking about his occupation, I've added that Lawrie is a sculptor, but if not, were you asking about the circumstances of how/why he was hired? Epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - No sorry that's all I was looking for, a little bit of introduction as to who he is - just worded it lazily. "Sculptor Lee Lawrie" is perfect. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:27, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Okay, real quick, I'm gonna put a pin in my review and say that I've started to wonder if this article should be split. It's approximately 4000 words in total, and roughly 1200 (more than 25%) of those are dedicated just to the bank building. Given that the bank building would obviously have been notable in its own right before they stuck the Brooklyn Tower on top of it, would it not make sense for it to have its own article? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the splitting question - I was thinking you might ask that. The answer is a bit complicated. On the one hand, the bank building was notable in its own right, even though the actual building has been converted to retail as part of this development. On the other hand, the tower is actually an annex of the bank itself, rather than a separate development; the only thing is that the annex is 20 times larger than the original building. The tower's address is the same as the bank's address, and the idea for the tower was devised in part because the bank building had been sold. Ultimately, I thought it might be better to keep the info on one page after reading WP:PAGEDECIDE, since much of the info about the bank overlaps with that of the tower (the bank has been adaptively reused like numerous others in NYC; it's just that the redevelopment of this bank building is so much more extensive than others). – Epicgenius (talk) 03:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I can get behind that argument. I'll carry on with the rest of the review shortly. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:26, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interior

I'm not sure it's necessary to include all 3 figures for the retail footage. Should we not stick with the most recent estimate instead?
Krista Ninivaggi is called an interior designer on her page, not an architect.
A foosball court? Like, the tabletop game with the little soccer dudes on the rotating sticks? How do you have a court for that?

History

"The irregular site had cost $230,000 to acquire." contradicts "with the site alone costing $250,000." in the next paragraph
Who is Jackie Totolo

As usual, a solid article with pretty minimal issues. Sourcing is reliable and no concerns on the ones I spot checked. No CV issues, no POV, etc etc. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:37, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @PMC. I've fixed all of the above issues now, going with your suggestion for the retail footage. I've also changed "Foosball court" to "Foosball space" (it really is a space full of Foosball tables, but maybe not a court per se). – Epicgenius (talk) 14:00, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good to go! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:08, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 00:34, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

The Brooklyn Tower

... that the Brooklyn Tower, the first supertall building in Brooklyn, was described by its architect as both "badass" and "quite elegant"? Source: Wachs, Audrey (July 6, 2016). "SHoP makes the Brooklyn skyline with a "brooding, elegant, and badass" supertall… There goes the neighborhood?". The Architect's Newspaper.
- ALT1: ... that the Brooklyn Tower, the first supertall building in Brooklyn, was described as the "Empire State Building of Brooklyn"? Source: Greenberg, Rebecca (June 29, 2022). "Inside the Brooklyn Tower, the borough's tallest skyscraper". Spectrum News NY1 New York City.
- ALT2: ... that the Brooklyn Tower's design was inspired by that of the Dime Savings Bank Building at its base? Source: Warerkar, Tanay (February 17, 2016). "Brooklyn's Tallest Building Could Have As Many As 500 Rentals". Curbed.
- ALT3: ... that as part of the Brooklyn Tower development, swimming pools were installed above an adjacent bank? Source: Volner, Ian (October 27, 2021). "A Visit to (Nearly) the Top of the Supertall Brooklyn Tower". Curbed.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/A Fistful of Gun

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 00:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: @Epicgenius: Good article. Waiting on a QPQ now. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:44, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Approve now that QPQ has been added. Onegreatjoke (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Height dispute

Original title: Demote good article

Why bother putting anywhere in the article that it really only has 74 floors when we can just lie and copy inflated promotional material. The height and floors are both off from the very number one footnote reference the CTBUH. B137 (talk) 00:15, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We are not going to demote this as GA if that is the only issue. Honestly, the fix literally took one minute. In any case I don't see why you said we can just lie and copy inflated promotional material when (1) the "real" height is cited to the FAA; (2) the floor numbers are cited to other reliable sources that just give a different figure from the CTBUH. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Diarrhea Tower

Why is this photo captioned Diarrhea Tower Madovoid (talk) 01:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been reverted now. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:26, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]