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Talk:3-inch ordnance rifle

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GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:3-inch ordnance rifle/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 07:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Claiming this one, comments to follow in due course. Zawed (talk) 07:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Background

  • link cast iron, wrought iron, also link ranks as they appear on first mention. Is there a suitable link for the Ordnance Board and is that different to the Ordnance Department which is mentioned later in the article?
     Done Added cast iron link. Wrought iron link is already in the introduction. After a careful reading of the source, I believe that the Ordnance Board = Ordnance Department. So, I added the link to United States Army Ordnance Corps (the current version).
  • produced the highest-quality iron rods used in lighthouse construction.: not sure about the sentence construction here; it implies that there could be higher quality iron rods produced but used in other constructions and I'm not sure that is your intention.
     Done Changed to "high-quality". "Highest-quality" sounds like salesman-talk.
  • Meanwhile, Griffen was issued a patent on 25 December 1855.: suggest clarifying that this was for the gun? (or was it the method of construction?). Also, link patent.
     Done Added "for the gun". Added patent link.
  • ...have Griffen's 1855 patent stamped on one trunnion.: possible missing words, perhaps "mention of" should precede "Griffen's"
     Done Changed sentence to clarify it.

Reeves's process

  • requested four wrought iron guns: the following sentence only mentions two of these guns
     Done Sentence rewritten. The govt. ordered 4 guns but only bought two.
  • but neither survived.: perhaps "but neither are known to have survived."?
     Done
  • ordered 300 wrought iron rifled cannons...: link rifled
     Done Added rifling link.
  • Should the Ordnance Department be listed as a designer?
     Done Yes, will add that to infobox.
  • gun barrel consisted of a sweeping curve.: If I understand what is meant here, I'm not sure "sweeping curve" is the right term? From the pictures, the barrel has a substantially straight line that tapers slightly from the breech to the end of the barrel. Unless you mean as a cross-section?
     Done The source calls it a blended sweeping curve. The phrase is now in quotes.
  • wrapped it with sheets of iron until the pile: link pile
     Not done I see no wiki definitions of pile that fit the term. If there is one, please suggest it.
    I'm not sure if pile is a metal forming/working term or not. If not, maybe assembly would work better? Anyhow, not something I think warrants holding this up in light of all the other amendments made. Zawed (talk) 09:09, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reeves convinced the patent examiners that his new method was different from a 29 April 1862 patent granted to David T. Yeakel.: suggest: "Reeves filed for a patent for his new method and convinced the examiner that it was different to a process described in an earlier patent granted to David T. Yeakel."
     Done
  • The Confederate States...: if I understand this correctly, the CSA made 84 of their own 3-inch ordnance rifles to the same design as the Ordnance Department but using a different method. Suggest also adding in the total number made for the Union Army (but not the breakdown by inspection date, I see that comes later in history section).
     Partly done A cited clause was added to Confederate rifles. I need to look for a source for the total number of Union-made rifles. Hazlett et al has a great appendix that lists gun registry numbers, but sometimes numbers were skipped. Not sure where "1000" came from. I need to find a source that lists the total. I need to consult Ripley or Katcher.
     Done A new Production section was created.

Specifications

  • Clarify the designation as being Model 1861
     Done See first sentence.
  • No explicit mention of the ordnance rifle being a muzzleloader.
     Done See first sentence, Johnson & Anderson citation. Most sources don't bother to mention it because muzzleloading cannons were ubiquitous during the war. The only breechloaders were a few British-made Whitworths.
  • The 3-inch rifle fired spherical...: Suggest linking the different kinds of shot that are referred to in this sentence, if not already linked elsewhere.
     Not done Ammo types (common shell, spherical case, canister) are all linked in the Introduction.
  • link Hotchkiss, Schenkl, Parrott
     Partly done Parrott rifle and Hotchliss gun linked. There are no links to Schenkl ammunition.
  • Early in the war, Union batteries were organized with six guns of identical type.: it is not explicit at this point that we are referring to the 3-inch ordnance rifle.
     Done I pondered whether to remove 2 sentences referring to "identical type" as not relevant, but I decided that it was important for the reader to understand that the standard Union battery had six 3-inchers or six Napoleons, for example. Instead, the wording has been made clearer.

History

  • The real reason is not known.: rather than "real", which to me implies that this is correcting a untruth, suggest "actual".
     Done Changed to "actual".
  • Within a short time, three shells came through this opening from a 3-inch ordnance rifle...: pretty good shooting!!
     Remark: Not bad for the era before the recoil mechanism.
  • the Confederate army employed 42 (captured): if the bulk of these were captured in a single engagement or two, could be worth mentioning?
     Not done Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to find what type of guns (12-pdr Napoleon, 3-inch, 10-pdr Parrott, etc.) a specific artillery battery was using at a given time during the war. I know of one book, but it's only good for one battle! Some batteries upgraded to newer guns, while other kept the same armament throughout the war. Other batteries had their guns captured. A few sources helpfully list the type of gun, but most do not. Generally, an account will say "Battery X lost all six of its guns" without specifying what type of weapons they were. Primary sources might give this information, but those are taboo in Wikipedia articles (no research!). Djmaschek (talk) 05:50, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The infoxbox lists 1,000 being made; I don't get that from the numbers recited here
    Good catch. Katcher lists 1,100 made by Phoenix, but there were some other manufacturers that made a few. This will have to wait for another day.
     Done A new Production section was created. Please note that a paragraph about inferior Confederate 3-inch rifles was removed from History. I think that issue was adequately covered under the new Production section.

Notes

  • The cite format for footnote 1 is inconsistent with the others.
     Done
  • Sources look to be reliable, the publishers being well known.

Other stuff

  • No dupe links
  • Image tags OK

Djmaschek, apologies for the delay in conducting this review but I have made comments/suggestions as above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 03:18, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Zawed: Thanks for the review. I hesitate changing "pile" to "assembly" even though the terms seem to be equivalent. In my opinion, since "pile" is used 4 times in the text, the reader should be able to understand its meaning. The source used "pile" so it may have once been a commonly used metal-working term, but is no longer. Djmaschek (talk) 15:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ordnance

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I don't understand why the title of this article was changed from 3-inch Ordnance rifle to 3-inch ordnance rifle; as it was developed by the U.S. Ordnance Department, "Ordnance rifle" seems no different than Parrott rifle or Napoleon gun. Radar488 (talk) 03:45, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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