Talk:2024 Venezuelan protests

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Venezuela

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Recent edits to the lead

Steven1991 you are making edits to the lead of the article faster than they can be repaired on a widely viewed article; please discuss your edits on talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:00, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thank you for reminder. Steven1991 (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have done all the repair I intend to for now, but you have introduced considerable content in the lead that is nowhere to be found in the body; please think about improving the body of the article before chunking info in to the lead, with errors. Repair is incomplete, but I leave it to others. Please read WP:LEAD, WP:LEADCITE and WP:FN (refs go after punctuation except for dashes); the lead is a summary of the body-- not a stand-alone article about content not even covered in the body.

I suggest returning the lead to what it was before this series of edits. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Steven1991 your edits to the lead are ill-informed and disruptive. The US did not perform any forensic analysis of vote tallies, has not taken a lead in declaring Maduro lost the election, so should not be singled out, and I am aware of no source that states that colectivos are taking people from their homes. Yet you continued these edits after I asked that you slow down and discuss.[1]

Your edits to the lead are also going off-topic (this article is about the protests) and causing confusion; see #Electoral fraud.

I suggest reverting to the lead before these off-topic and unsourced edits. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

Please check the following sources:

- https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/world/americas/venezuela-election-gonzalez-maduro.html (The New York Times)

- https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/02/venezuela-election-us-edmundo-gonzalez-maduro-results-disputed (The Guardian)

- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezuela-election-us-recognizes-edmundo-gonzalez-winner-raud-allegations-maduro/ (CBS News)

Just because you don't want to acknowledge it, it doesn't mean it is not true. I am rather sceptical of the motive behind the accusation. Steven1991 (talk) 22:36, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please re-read my message again. Carefully. The US did not perform any forensic analysis of vote tallies, has not taken a lead in declaring Maduro lost the election, so should not be singled out, and I am aware of no source that states that colectivos are taking people from their homes.. The forensic analysis was done by others. Other countries have taken the lead on the Maduro loss issue, but aren't mentioned by you, while the US (the last and slowest to weigh in, and which has still not taken a forceable stand) is mentioned. And what source supports colectivos taking people from their homes?

Please also review WP:LEAD; this article is about the protests, not the election, and the lead should summarize the body of the article. You have an installed a lead with unverified content, that is not about the protests-- rather goes into excess detail about the election. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recall seeing a recent Talk page section about different sources not agreeing on whether the US recognized the election, but I can't seem to find it. David O. Johnson (talk) 00:33, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David O. Johnson, it's at Talk:2024 Venezuelan presidential election/Archive 1#U.S. recognition of election result. The US eventually recognized Gonzalez as the winner, but they a) were very slow even in that, and b) have not recognized him as president-elect as other countries have. They are either deliberately taking it slow, or taking it slow due to incompetence and lack of leadership, but that's another issue; they aren't taking a lead on the "who won" issue (covered in the Wall Street Journal article and others about the amnesty question-- not for this article). They shouldn't be singled out in the lead on protests as they aren't even worthy of singling out in the elections article.

But that's not the main problem with this lead; the bigger issue is the uncited text (colectivos taking people from their homes and the US completing a forensic examination of the evidence), and the amount of the lead that is not a summary of this article, rather other articles.

Only one paragraph of the current lead is about the protests. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:13, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Steven1991 with these edits, I have restored the lead to generally what it was before the excess and off-topic detail was added, and then expanded to include more info about the actual protests-- to conform with WP:LEAD and have lead content about the protests rather than overly detailed about the elections per se, while moving cited content to Background and Reactions. Please review WP:ONUS and WP:BRD, and gain consensus on talk for edits; you did not have consensus to expand the lead into content not about the protests, and should not reinstate that content without gaining consensus. Also, please review WP:LEADCITE and note that leads can be generalized and that each sentence doesn't need to be cited (I have cited quotes and statistics). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:25, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever floats your boat. This is how Wikipedia works, that's why your professor friends told students that Wikipedia could not be cited directly. Steven1991 (talk) 21:17, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Improper move

I have reverted a move of the article to "voter fraud protests"; the protests have extended beyond voter fraud. For example, 8 August was a vigil for political prisoners. And 3 August was a tribute to those "heroes" who defended the vote and were then persecuted in the ensuing crackdown. Human rights issues became part of the later protests as post-election issues unfolded. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead figures in infobox

Why are Superlano and Allup listed as "lead figures" in the infobox? Neither are mentioned in the article. I haven't seen sources discussing a prominent role in the protests for Allup. Superlano was detained by Maduro security forces shortly after the election, and is still in El Helicoide, so he certainly isn't a lead figure. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No response, removed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:40, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

17 August

I hit a wall, tired; all I can do for today. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citation needed

Theasiancowboy, please cite the text you add. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]