Talk:2024 Fine Gael leadership election

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work on this article!

Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:00, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Why was Mary Lou McDonald added

Mary Lou McDonald is not a FG TD or member and is ineligible to vote never mind stand in the election 2.101.119.4 (talk) 22:00, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

yes, this was very strange!!! Unionofpeopleni (talk) 22:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Election V Selection (& Speculation)

This article was created on the premise that there will/would be an election. Based, it seems, on the precedent that there were elections previously. And articles covering those previous elections. While, granted, some of the news sources (relied upon for the article) speculated on that possibility, there's a reason we have WP:NOTNEWS, WP:CRYSTAL and WP:TOOSOON guidelines. And ideally wouldn't automatically rush to creating articles/titles in response to every headline. As it stands, the title of this article ("election") and one of the core sections ("electoral process") extend this speculation into a form of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH that (in my view) is misplaced. Given (as of 13:00 Irish time on 21 March 2024) it seems uncertain that an election will form part of the selection of the next Fine Gael leader, at all, I wonder if this title should be a redirect. Perhaps to History of Fine Gael#Varadkar resignation or similar. And, if an election does (in the future) form part of the selection process, then a standalone article can be restored. Otherwise it seems likely this title will almost certainly have to be retitled/moved. And significantly refactored. Or, to put it bluntly, potentially read simply "2024 Fine Gael leadership election - there wasn't one" :) Standing mainly/only as an example of why we have TOOSOON/NOTNEWS/CRYSTAL guidelines... Guliolopez (talk) 14:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

It's still an election, a candidate can be elected unopposed. See the presidential elections of 1974, 1976, 1983 and 2004. More recently across the water, Rishi Sunak became leader of the Conservative party unopposed, and there is this article - October 2022 Conservative Party leadership election. Also, there are several examples from Irish party leadership contests, e.g. 2008 Fianna Fáil leadership election and 2022 Labour Party leadership election (Ireland). I disagree that these articles are WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, they give an overview of the leadership election/selection process. Also, it definitely is news! Spleodrach (talk) 15:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

After reading Fine Gael's constitution (available here), I can't figure out what the procedure is for an unopposed leadership contest.

The way it's written, it seems they will still have to go through the election process, even if there's only one candidate. Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 15:24, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for thoughts. In terms of:

• "It's still an election [even if there's only one candidate]". Is it though? Per RTÉ coverage: "an election, however [..] would require a second candidate". Implying that, with no other candidates, there won't be an "election".
• "October 2022 Conservative Party leadership election". While I understand the comparison, the Tories had multiple elections that year, and there was polling and speculation to the extent that there could be a expansive sections on process/candidates/polling/etc. Over days and weeks. Which isn't the case here. It's barely been hours. And it seems likely there won't be an "election election".

Anyway. We can revisit once reality overtakes speculation and guessing. However, if there is no election (to the extent that this "election" title ends up effectively saying that "it was speculated, on 20 Oct, that an election might occur; and, on 22 Oct, confirmed that it wouldn't") we can revisit the title/purpose/scope question. Including the "does an event that never happened warrant a standalone article/title" (WP:EVENT/WP:LASTING) question... Guliolopez (talk) 22:06, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

It is still an election with only 1 candidate, as I have pointed out with 4 presidential elections and several party leadership ones. Obviously, you have already made up your mind on this issue, if you choose to ignore these facts, then I would like to hear from other editors on this issue. So there will not be an normal election but more of a coronation, however this still warrants a standalone article to give the reader an overview of events surrounding the change of leadership; not some miserly paragraph tucked into some other article. Spleodrach (talk) 00:07, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

It's all wordplay really. An uncontested election can still be said to be an election. Or it could be changed to "selection process". Or whatever. It's still worth an article. Stifle (talk) 09:11, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Regardless of common parlance calling it an election only when contested (even a clearly reliable source like RTÉ), as cited above only with reference to Irish politics, there is such thing as an uncontested election. Nominations open, nominations close, for an election. Consider the WP:20YEARTEST. If someone in 2044 wants to know how Harris became Taoiseach, this page we're putting together will relevant useful information, and here in its most obvious location, named as per other articles. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 15:52, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

In terms of it being:

• "all wordplay really". Perhaps that's true. Many of the sources use the term "election" (while also, in almost the same breath, saying that there won't "be an election [in the election] with only one election candidate". And others (one of which has a fun tongue twister about an "election selection convention" :D ) giving that Harris would be "deemed elected" - in the event of no other candidates. My main concern, in all honesty, is that we added all the stuff about an election process (electoral colleges, candidate eligibility, voter eligibility [by college], voting mechanisms, etc, etc) - when it was not directly supported. And likely unneeded. Effectively (our) speculation built on (journo) speculation.
• "20YEARTEST". Also likely true/valid. However, just to be clear, the 20YEAR version of this article would ideally not have stuff like "at 6am X was floated - when he woke at 7am he ruled self out"; "at 8pm this was speculated - didn't happen"; "at 9am Y was proposed - rejected 15 mins later once she actually arrived at office"; etc. The blow-by-blow running-news format (that impossible to follow Twitter-feed style used on breaking news stories) might be OK for news sites. But that's not this project's remit. We don't have to republish/update/retract all speculation in real time. And we shouldn't.

Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 17:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

"all the stuff about an election process (electoral colleges, candidate eligibility, voter eligibility [by college], voting mechanisms, etc, etc) - when it was not directly supported. And likely unneeded. Effectively (our) speculation built on (journo) speculation.". I think that information is relevant as it highlights how important the immediate backing Harris received from TDs is. I also don't think it's unfounded speculation when the FG constitution lays out the process in black in white. I have found no evidence to suggest that their constitution has changed since the last election, and recent press coverage support's the election process outlined in the article. Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 15:29, 23 March 2024 (UTC)