Talk:2023 Wagner Group plane crash

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A news item involving 2023 Wagner Group plane crash was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 24 August 2023.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Moved, 25 August 2023, from 2023 Tver plane crash to 2023 Tver Oblast plane crash, see discussion.
Moved to 2023 Wagner Group plane crash, 30 August 2023, to Tver Oblast Wagner business jet crash, see discussion.
Not moved, 24 September 2023, to 2023 Wagner Group Jet Crash, see discussion.
Not moved, 15 October 2024, to 2023 Wagner Group Embraer Legacy 600 crash, see discussion.

What is this? Propaganda? Never!

"A Telegram channel linked to the Wagner Group, named Grey Zone"

Please explain how they're "linked to the Wagner Group". Very curious. AntiBiasBoy (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that in the supplied ref, the BBC's Security Correspondent and MI6 expert Frank Gardner OBE was referring to https://t.me/s/grey_zone and not https://thegrayzone.com/ . So it's not as rabid as it may first seem.

However I take your point about propaganda; considering this article is so tightly tied down, it is very poor. As an example it screams that Putin is denying it was a bomb but the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation Putin allegedly tasked with the investigation have already linked on their website to Kommersant saying "Let us note that, according to experts in the field of accident investigation, the cause of the crash could have been an explosion that occurred in the tail section of the plane, which was torn off from it". [1] Kommersant also have a good early article on the crash [2]. Of course I'm not permitted to add any of this.

Maybe Wikipedia really is better left open to the people rather than ~~Wikicrats and professionals~~ extended auto confirmed editors. Just a thought. Amble123 (talk) 00:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 October 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 06:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Wagner Group plane crash → 2023 Wagner Group Embraer Legacy 600 crash – WP:NCE recommends not to use informal words like "plane crash" in the title of articles. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 01:46, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Aviation, WikiProject Russia, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force have been notified of this discussion. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 13:30, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. "Plane crash" is ordinary, common language. It is not at all too informal. See e.g. Al Jazeera, Axios, CNN, The Guardian, The Hill, The Moscow Times, Radio Free Europe, and Reuters, all of which say "plane crash", and numerous others cited in the article. (Links drawn from the 30 August 2023 RM discussion, omitting now-dead links.) The model of aircraft is excessively precise information for the title and it's not natural or recognizable. Adumbrativus (talk) 14:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Normally I would support, but as demonstrated above, "plane crash" is by far the WP:COMMONNAME. - ZLEA _T\^C 14:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. As aviation accidents go, this one is a special case due to the political and military ramifications, the death of several Wikinotable people, and the possible assassination angle. Most WP:SECONDARY coverage focuses on these aspects, not the type of aircraft, as pointed out by @Adumbrativus. See The Day The Music Died or Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan for other special cases. Carguychris (talk) 18:09, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above comments. The aircraft type is of little relevance to the topic. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. In typical private aircraft crashes, the aircraft type is of immediate relevance. However, the crash has far more significant implications which are spelled out in the current name. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:45, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No opinion on these moves, but I think some effort should be made to reconcile WP:NCE with Wikipedia:WikiProject_Aviation/Aviation_accident_task_force#Accident_article_naming_conventions. Normally the guideline would take precedent over whatever is on a WikiProject page, but it's unclear to what extent NCE reflects current consensus. If there is a lot of interest in renaming these articles, we should ensure the naming conventions reflect consensus rather than deciding in individual RMs. Mdewman6 (talk) 07:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - more encyclopedic title. Mjroots (talk) 17:19, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.