Talk:2023 Chicago Marathon

did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 02:04, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• alt0: ... that the two second-fastest marathoners ever ran in the 2023 Chicago Marathon? date requested: 2023.10.08 12:30 utc (07:30 cdt) (pending approval)
• alt0a: ... that both the second-fastest male marathoner ever and the second-fastest female marathoner ever ran in the 2023 Chicago Marathon? date requested: 2023.10.08 12:30 utc (07:30 cdt) (pending approval)

  sources:
  [1]	https://archive.today/20230827231327/https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a44632887/2023-chicago-marathon-full-fields/
  	Chicago Marathon, to be held on October 8 ... defending champion Benson Kipruto of Kenya ... will be challenged by Kelvin Kiptum, also of Kenya, who is the second-fastest man in history. ... On the women's side [is] Ruth Chepngetich of Kenya, who just missed the world record at Chicago last year .... [links removed]
  [2]	https://archive.today/20230827231305/https://www.worldathletics.org/news/report/chicago-marathon-2022-chepngetich-kipruto
  	Chepngetich ... held on to finish in 2:14:18, the second-fastest time in history.

• alt1: ... that one runner of the 2023 Chicago Marathon is the Chicago Marathon's millionth finisher? date requested: 2023.10.08 12:30 utc (07:30 cdt) (pending approval)

  source:	https://archive.today/20230827231342/https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a42200126/chicago-marathon-field-2023/
  	one of the 2023 participants will cross the finish line as the Chicago Marathon's significant one-millionth finisher

  • reviewed: hotel normandie (new york city)
  • comment:

    in alt0, the two runners being referred to are kelvin kiptum, the second fastest male marathoner ever, and ruth chepng'etich, the second fastest female marathoner ever. "the two second-fastest marathoners ever" is admittedly an unusual way to word this. i thought it was somewhat quirky and avoids a bit of redundancy, but have also added alt0a if the wording seems inappropriate. i think the two second-fastest wheelchair marathoners ever are also planning to compete, but i haven't found reliable sources to support this yet.

    also, i believe i have coded the hooks so that the tenses will correctly update during the day of the race. i believe the race is scheduled to start at 12:30 utc, so the winners are first runner is likely to finish sometime between 14:30 and 14:35. i don't know when exactly the millionth finisher will finish the race, but it looks like it will take around 90 minutes for everyone to start the race, and the average marathon finish time is around 04:30 (four and a half hours), so i am using a finish time estimate of 17:45. also, the code for the hooks should replace "today's" with "the 2023" once the day is over (where "2023" is part of the link text, and "the" is not).

    update: welp, it looks like tigst assefa just destroyed the world record last weekend at berlin, making alt0 and alt0a no longer true, so i am striking them. (i think this is probably the best reason i have ever had for striking a hook.) alt1 remains valid. also, i have since learned from this source that more than 960,000 runners have finished the chicago marathon so far, and more than 47,000 are scheduled to run this year, so am adjusting my estimated finish time of the millionth finisher to 18:45 utc, based on the results of runners who finished in the 15th percentile last year, as seen here.

    i have also updated the {{DYK date request}} template. if you approve of the date request, please replace "approved=no" with "approved=yes". you can also use the optional "approvedby" parameter if you wish.

    i declare that i am not aware of having any conflict of interest with the 2023 chicago marathon.

created by dying (talk). self-nominated at 23:47, 3 September 2023 (UTC). [copyedited and added quotes. dying (talk) 01:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)] [struck alt0 and alt0a, and updated alt1 and comments. dying (talk) 21:21, 27 September 2023 (UTC)] [struck date request and updated comment. dying (talk) 12:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)]

• Comment this race has now happened, and Kelvin Kiptum set the world record at this event. Would be good to have a hook related to the events of the race itself (since it's now happened). Joseph2302 (talk) 08:10, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

New enough, long enough. ALT1 short enough, sourced, and interesting. No neutrality problems found, no copyright problems found, no maintenance templates found. QPQ done. I'd like to see the bare URLs formatted and the article and hook brought up to date before I approve this.--Launchballer 11:07, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

thanks for the comment, Joseph2302, and for the review, Launchballer. yes, i agree that this nomination needs an update.

i'm currently working on a proper update for both the article and the nomination. unfortunately, this may take some time, as i admittedly hadn't planned for the possibility of having this hook reviewed after the race. this might be just as well, as the article was recently linked from an itn blurb for a few days (though not as the bolded link, so the article remains eligible at dyk), so it may be better to delay posting this hook for a while anyway. dying (talk) 02:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

• @Dying and Launchballer: This nomination has been stuck for a couple of weeks now, have any concerns been addressed now? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:46, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

No, there are still bare URLs, and the article still seems out of date.--Launchballer 09:55, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

apologies for the delay! i have been working on an update, but i'm still not happy with it. i think, if i'm still not finished with it two weeks from now, i'll just post what i have, to avoid delaying this nomination any further. is that alright? dying (talk) 10:59, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if that will be allowed due to the whole "articles are expected to be in a not-incomplete state" guideline, and an outdated article may not meet that. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

welp, Launchballer, i am admittedly still working on the article, but i have posted what i have. thanks for being patient. hopefully, it is sufficiently updated enough for dyk purposes. if not, please let me know what i should address.

i think the most interesting thing about this race is that, had tigst not broken the women's world record two weeks before, the winning times in this race would have broken both the men's and women's world records. however, a hook focusing on this fact may seem almost regretful over tigst's achievement, so i ended up deciding against proposing such a hook.

i did notice that it seems like five course records were broken in this race: male runner, female runner, non-binary runner, male wheelchair athlete, and female wheelchair athlete. (i think no one has competed as a non-binary wheelchair athlete yet.) however, i couldn't find a source that explicitly states that the non-binary runner course record was broken, or even that a record of the fastest performance by a non-binary runner is kept as a course record. i did find a source that mentioned that the other four course records were broken, though.

Sifan Hassan

Sifan Hassan

alt2: ... that, during the 2023 Chicago Marathon (female winner pictured), four course records were broken?

source:	https://archive.today/20231118084354/https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a45444043/chicago-marathon-2023-results/
	There were four course records set on a near-perfect day for racing in the Windy City.

as the fact that kiptum broke the world record was already featured at itn for several days, i thought i might avoid bringing it up again at dyk. however, i can propose a hook along those lines if you think it would be better than the ones i have already proposed. dying (talk) 12:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC) [struck image and added cropped version. dying (talk) 06:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)]

Thank you for updating the article. I see no further bare URLs or tense issues, so I could approve this with ALT1. However, I'm fairly sure that the non-binary runner would come under WP:CALC, so "five course records" were broken. If you'd prefer that hook to run, please propose it; otherwise I'll approve this.--Launchballer 13:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Launchballer, that's very kind of you to offer. i am admittedly hesitant because i don't think this falls under the wp:calc exception. though i believe caswell's performance was the best ever by a runner in the chicago marathon's non-binary division, i am having trouble finding any evidence that the chicago marathon, or any reliable source, treats this performance as a course record. (during the race, jeannie rice set the marathon world record for the masters w75 division, i.e., women between the ages of 75 and 79, though i assume the chicago marathon does not treat this as a course record.)

it's possible that not reporting caswell's performance as a course record is just an oversight. catherine debrunner set a course record at the 2022 berlin marathon, though the statistics page on the berlin marathon's web site did not initially reflect this. (this was later corrected.) incidentally, that same page, updated after the 2023 race, appears to show that the berlin marathon does not list a non-binary performance amongst its course records.

now that i'm thinking about it more, however, i realize that, by ignoring what could be considered a fifth course record, i may be inadvertently excluding non-binary runners from the hook simply because i couldn't find a source that reported caswell's performance as a course record. as the issue is potentially controversial, i was thinking of asking for further community input at wt:dyk, to see whether it would be better to mention that four course records were set, or five. would that be alright with you? dying (talk) 05:59, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

It may be worth asking at WT:DYK.--Launchballer 09:06, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

dying, Launchballer, this is currently the oldest unapproved nomination at over three months. If you wish to attempt the "five", a query at WT:DYK is imperative and should be done right away. If not, then it's time to conclude this. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

No, I think I'm going to approve ALT1 and propose ALT3 myself. The reviewer can take their pick. ALT3: ... that during the 2023 Chicago Marathon (female winner pictured), five course records were broken?--Launchballer 17:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

whoops, sorry, Launchballer! i just saw this after typing up my comment at wt:dyk. apologies for the possible conflict. i'm admittedly not sure how best to proceed, but i can withdraw my comment at wt:dyk if you'd like. dying (talk) 19:59, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Note to any promoter: as ALT3 has not yet been approved, it may not be promoted. (It has also been called into question at WT:DYK#2023 chicago marathon.) Only ALT1 is fully approved, though as the race has occurred, the hook's "is" should be replaced with "was". The article now even names the millionth finisher. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Launchballer, the fact that the only person so far to comment on the issue at wt:dyk has reservations about treating caswell's performance as a course record suggests to me that alt3 may not be an appropriate hook to run at this time. however, i still would like to have alt2 approved, if possible, as i think it is more interesting than alt1. would that be alright with you? also, if the issue ends up being raised at wp:errors, i have no problem with any administrator replacing "four" with "five".

by the way, i also wanted to note that i have updated the nomination with a cropped version of the proposed image, thanks to PawełMM's help at the graphics lab. dying (talk) 06:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough, approving ALT2 and its updated image.--Launchballer 08:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)