Talk:2023 Bronx poisoning

This page has been recently proposed for deletion (11 December 2024) by Bridget (talk · contribs).

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Title

@Panamitsu: I wonder if calling this article "Fentanyl daycare incident" is really the best title. To me, the title appears vague and imprecise. Using the word "incident" totally understates the audacity of this criminal behaviour. A young child's life was lost in this case. The usual convention for articles about deaths of people is to give these a title like Death of <person>. Although, for events involving multiple victims, the naming convention is to use the "when" "where" "what" format. Thus the article could also be named "2023 New York daycare fentanyl poisonings", because that is what they were. Before I request a move, what are your thoughts? - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:43, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cameron Dewe I certainly agree with your change, but it makes me wonder, should the title even have fentanyl in it at this point in time considering that no final verdict has been made that fentanyl was the cause? The fentanyl part really is what makes the case notable so I'm unsure. —Panamitsu (talk) 23:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Panamitsu: That is why I have asked this question. What really is significant here? Is it the death of a single child? Or the circumstances surrounding the poisoning of 4 children in a New York daycare facility? The objective evidence reported would suggest that fentanyl was more probable, than not, involved. While this isn't beyond reasonable doubt needed for a criminal conviction, it does seem to be the most likely explanation of the medical symptoms and treatment when saying this was an accidental death, as there is no contrary explanation for what happened. If you don't want to use the word "fentanyl" in the title, it could be omitted, or the more general "opioid" could be used instead, because the medical treatment using Narcan is for an opioid toxicity. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well I think that we should keep fentanyl then as it is the most significant part of this event. I support your proposed name change. —Panamitsu (talk) 00:59, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cameron Dewe: I forgot to ping you, so I'm pinging you incase you didn't see my reply. Apologies if you've already seen it. —Panamitsu (talk) 02:03, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Panamitsu: I saw your reply and agree with it. I didn't think it needed a reply as you were agreeing with my proposal, anyway. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:06, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Deletion

Oppose. Can I suggest that this article may have on going international and public health significance due to the extremes involved which can have political, legal and medical implications. The actual incident has been mentioned in NY local media today. Some sentencing was as recent as October 2024.

The deletion was proposed by User:Bridget within 24 hours of this event in NY that threatened two day care centres with the implication that extreme events relevant to on going international public health issues are not regarded as notable in certain parts of the wikipedia community.ChaseKiwi (talk) 22:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChaseKiwi: You need sources that support the assertion that this specific daycare incident has "on going international and public health significance". The news article you cite from yesterday focuses on a fentanyl exposure incident that occurred near a different daycare; it simply states: "Tuesday's fentanyl bust was eerily similar to one that occurred last year in the Bronx..." It's not clear if this event has lasting significance per the NEVENT notability guideline. Best, Bridget (talk) 23:03, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Your personal opinion is noted, was disagreed with, and source was given in talk that at this time there is definite lasting significance perceived by some.

It may be that any interested editor, by checking at what was said in the international news sources used in the article, will be able to substantiate my claim in talk (not the article) that this event had potentially on going international and public health significance.

As it happened I had already suggested to another editor that due to my potential CoI in another jurisdiction, that others would be better positioned to deal with improvement in the article itself, now I have removed the deletion notice with the reason in talk with source and the edit note. It can be rather difficult to find high quality tertiary or secondary sources with emerging issues which in this case is the effect on young children due to the storage of the drug by those in the supply chain rather than users. The first USA studies of the general issue in children who were overwhelming exposed by unpaid carers recreational use, were after all only published recently. See Temple, C.; Hendrickson, R.G. (6 March 2024). "Increasing Exposure of Young Children to Illicit Fentanyl in the United States". New England Journal of Medicine. 390 (10): 956–957. doi:10.1056/NEJMc2313270. Retrieved 11 Dec 2024.Gaither, J.R. (2023). "National Trends in Paediatric Deaths from Fentanyl,1999-2021". JAMA Paediatrics. 177 (7): 733–735. doi:10.1001/jamapediatrics.2023.0793. Cheers. ChaseKiwi (talk) 00:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]