Talk:2022 Kherson counteroffensive

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2022 Kherson counteroffensive article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 60 days

International relations

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Military history: European / Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Russia: Military

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.

Ukraine High‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

On 31 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2022 Ukrainian Kherson counteroffensive. The result of the discussion was Moved to 2022 Kherson counteroffensive.

Requested move 31 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2022 Kherson counteroffensive. There is consensus to move, and participants have brought up a point that the proposed title is a bit wordy and a shorter title 2022 Kherson counteroffensive has support among the participants. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:02, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2022 Ukrainian southern counteroffensive → 2022 Ukrainian Kherson counteroffensive – In the past, in this talk page, this title was rejected shortly after the liberation of Kherson city because there were reports of Ukrainian incursions to the other bank of the Dnipro, so the counteroffensive could be deemed as still ongoing. More than a month later, it is clear this has not been the case. Discussion about the liberation of the rest of the south of Ukraine comes from a possible counteroffensive by Ukraine in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, specially to Melitopol. The front around Kherson is and will be static for a while, it appears. Therefore, I think we should define this counteroffensive as exclusively aiming for Kherson. Otherwise, that it has already ended and that it was a Ukrainian victory as the infobox says, is nonsense. Super Ψ Dro 12:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

why not '2022 Kherson counteroffensive'?—blindlynx 18:50, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination 🍁 DinoSoupCanada 🍁 (talk) 23:18, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support 2022 Ukrainian Kherson counteroffensive, weakly support proposed title. It's an improvement but a bit wordy. Red Slash 23:12, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Most media have called it the Kherson Counteroffensive for a while now, and the Kherson Counteroffensive is probably the common name, as opposed to the Southern Counteroffensive.:Physeters^✉ 03:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support I created the page and I support this because most RS are referring to this as the Kherson offensive. Additionally, if a counteroffensive were to take place in Zaporizhzhia, we would have two conflicting "southern" counteroffensives. Renaming this the "Kherson" counteroffensive removes ambiguity about further counteroffensives. PilotSheng (talk) 00:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do we need the word "Ukrainian" in the title? Like blindlynx, I think "2022 Kherson counteroffensive" would probably work better. HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith (talk) 18:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Counter-Offensive per se was not an ukranian victory

As the title says, Ukraine did not successfully militarily reconquered the the territory west of the Dniper, as the offensive per se endedeither in a stalemate or faliure with ukraine suffering heavy losses due to superior enemy's firepower until the Russians simply withdrew to the other bank of the river, followed by the ukrainian army establishing control over the areas left by the Russian armed forces, hence I suggest to change the outcome phrase to something along the lines of "Stalemate, followed by russian withdrawal" Mattia332 (talk) 14:33, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Conquering the capital city of the region in a month without having to get bogged down in urban warfare is a "stalemate or a failure"? The counteroffensive's goal was the city of Kherson, it's not like they tried to immediately assault left-bank positions and got beaten back. It simply wasn't their goal to immediately liberate the whole oblast. The outcome is fine as is. HappyWith (talk) 15:22, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cope, as they say. Nicodene (talk) 22:39, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your overall stance, but this is a personal attack which doesn’t belong on this website. HappyWith (talk) 01:24, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the objective was achieved and russia no longer controls the main city of the oblast, that’s a victory. the fact that you didn’t come back to defend this comment makes me think you came just to express your personal views. SSEdwards (talk) 14:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rewriting the start of the article for clarity in preview

Would it be possible to rewrite the first two sentences of the article to be more clear in previews on wikipedia, like it's done on the similar 2022 Kharkiv counteroffensive ? Something like :

The 2022 Kherson counteroffensive was a counteroffensive launched by Ukraine on 29 August 2022 to expel Russian forces occupying the southern regions of Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts. 178.23.152.132 (talk) 08:51, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties section error

I wanted correct an error, but I don't have edit permission here, so if someone with edit permission could make the correction it would be much appreciated. Here's the error.

In the "Casualties" section it says: Casualties and losses For Russia: 9,500 killed and wounded [23]

However going directly to the source article (reference number 23), it reads:

"the Ukrainian army lost more than 9,500 people killed and wounded between August and September"

So it is the other way around: For Ukraine, casualties = 9,500 (according to ref. no. 23)

Thanks in advance to whomever can fix this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Farmhand21 (talk • contribs) 10:14, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Status of Battle

I was thinking if there's still a possibility of having the status of the counter offensive as ongoing as Ukraine has still been continuing to launch attacks in the Kherson region and as well as the fact that they had not fully captured the whole region which makes it only minimally successful as the goal of the offensive was to capture the whole region which was not achieved. LegendaryChristopher (talk) 21:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]