Talk:2022 Pennsylvania gubernatorial election/Archive 1

Archive 1

Images

No past elections feature candidate images in the primary sections. Was this inclusive discussed somewhere? If not, this seems like an outlier.67.173.23.66 (talk) 23:23, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

It's useful, relevant content. If we base our edits only on what was done (arbitrarily) in past articles, the encyclopedia will not get a chance to improve. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 23:26, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

 Comment: RfC opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums#RfC about primary candidate photos in election articles. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 23:41, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Democrat candidates section

What is the author trying to say here:

Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro reported raising $13.4 million in 2021 by labor unions and big checks in a state that puts no limits on individual contributions. Republicans often focused their fraud claims on Philadelphia, the backbone of both the Black and Democratic votes in the state. Should this be an issue during the 2022 Pennsylvania gubernatorial race, how will the most challenging aspect of working in a diverse working environment effect Pastor Tega Swann creating change as the first black woman governor of Pennsylvania...‽

Clearly there is an editing mistake here, but I'm not even sure what is trying to be said? I'll leave it alone for now for the original author to clarify, but it may be worth deleting soon. Please feel free to clarify what the purpose of the last few sentences was.

References

Most of that makes little to no sense. I would suggest investigating author 2601:547:A01:120:531:C661:7E73:0/64, who has been making several largely nonsensical edits (things like this) to related elections. Cilidus (talk) 23:13, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Engineer-005 (talk) 20:44, 7 February 2022 (UTC):Yes, agree, several odd revisions from that user. I notice somebody deleted this paragraph.

Stop Adding Rand Paul

User Syaz351 seems obsessed with adding Rand Paul to this page at any cost possible, even if removed every 3 weeks. Not that funny, though, I'd cut your losses.--Engineer-005 (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Austin Davis photo.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Republican Primary Endorsements

How do we add endorsements? Senator Ryan Aument and Speaker Bryan Cutler have both endorsed Senator Scott Martin, and Congressman GT Thompson and former state rep Jere Strittmatter (PA-97) have endorsed Charlie Gerow. Nate Rybner 19:52, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

FYI I’m using a phone and won’t be at my computer for a few days Nate Rybner 19:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naterybner (talk • contribs)

You need to have to sources that meet WP:Endorse. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

There are sources, and I’ve met just about all of the candidates, the supporters of theirs, and those that have endorsed them. Nate Rybner 08:05, 24 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naterybner (talk • contribs)

Do the sources meet the WP:ENDORSE requirements (notable, reliable, and explicit articulation)? Personally meeting people doesn't satisfy a need for verifiability. —ADavidB 12:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Supposed presumptive nominee status in infobox

Courtesy ping to @Pennsylvania2, AWiseishGuy, Coemgenus, KidAd, and Tartan357: The issue of whether Josh Shapiro should be included as the presumptive nominee in the infobox or not should really be discussed here in the talk page in anticipation of further edit warring. —twotwofourtysix^{(My talk page and contributions)} 04:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: I originally removed Josh Shapiro from the infobox based on WP:CRYSTAL, which is very self-explanatory. It was then re-included before being removed again. I do not believe that calling Shapiro the "presumptive nominee" is wise because a lot can happen between now and the Democratic primary. Shapiro could drop out, become ensnared by some scandal, or even die. It has been known to happen. Additionally, the only sources that refer to Shapiro as "presumptive nominee" are this Philidelphia Inquirer piece and this one by "MontcoToday." I suggest that the latter source be completely disregarded, as the entire thing is based on supposition and hypothesis ("Despite Still Not Having Announced His Run, Abington’s Josh Shapiro is Presumptive Democratic Nomination for Governor"...yikes.) KidAd • SPEAK 05:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

A "presumptive nominee" is someone who has secured the required votes (or delegates in a presidential race) to receive the nomination. Media speculation about who will be nominated (months before voting even starts!) is not that. The edit-warring by one user against several others to introduce this blatantly false information is disruptive. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 05:09, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

• Comment Phil Murphy was listed as the presumptive nominee when he was the only Democrat running. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

^ WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST. KidAd • SPEAK 17:58, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

If he's the only candidate currently running how is he not the de facto nominee. If someone else runs, then you remove him. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 18:10, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Because that's WP:OR. Until reliable sources indicate that he is the nominee, he is not the nominee. KidAd • SPEAK 18:12, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

The Inquirer already referred to him as such! Pennsylvania2 (talk) 18:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:CRYSTAL, Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included, though editors should be aware of creating undue bias to any specific point-of-view. I support including a line like "Shapiro has been referred to as the presumptive nominee in the 2022 election by the Philadelphia Inquirer", but including him in the infobox is still premature. KidAd • SPEAK 18:58, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes. He'll probably win the primary, but it's a long way off and weirder things have happened. I don't recall ever seeing a non-incumbent in the infobox as nominee until he was actually the nominee. --Coemgenus (talk) 12:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

@Pennsylvania2: Get consensus here, instead of ignoring the result of this discussion. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 22:38, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Situation has changed. Shapiro is the ONLY candidate on the ballot. Meaning he is the presumptive nominee. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 22:46, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Even if something is likely to occur, we don't say it has occurred. Primary write-ins are allowed in PA, court challenges could happen, he could withdraw, the party leadership could do something. You are creating a definition of presumptive nominee that does not exist. It refers only to candidates in presidential nominating contests that have already earned the delegates they need to be nominated. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 22:59, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I originally agreed with @Tartan357 regarding the use of presumptive nominee, but now that Shapiro is the only candidate on the ballot as a Democrat, it is beyond reasonable to say that he is the presumptive Democrat nominee. You saying that he may lose a write-in campaign statewide in a primary is the biggest reach in world history, no offense. Even if that happens, that wouldn't make "presumptive" wrong. Anyone with a brain could quite safely presume that Josh Shapiro is the Dem candidate. Circumstances have changed, it's time to stop this silly argument. Engineer-005 (talk) 01:07, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

And tacking on to what I just wrote, you even link us to presumptive nominee which says: 'Ordinarily, a candidate becomes the presumptive nominee of their party when their "last serious challenger drops out" or when the candidate "mathematically clinches—whichever comes first. But there is still room for interpretation."'

Since Josh Shapiro never had a serious challenger to begin with, you could argue he's been presumptive from Day 1. That said, I'm happy to agree that it was too early to say presumptive before we knew for sure the ballot was empty. But now that it's clear that he only way he drops off the ballot is to get hit by a bus, I'm not sure how your own source even backs your position anymore.

All this said, it really doesn't matter. I just had to chime in because I can't believe this petty squabble is continuing. Engineer-005 (talk) 01:12, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

As I have pointed out multiple times, presumptive nominee, if you read the article, only refers to presidential nominating contests, because those are two-step nominating contests in which delegates are popularly elected, and then those delegates vote at the convention. What you are talking about is WP:OR, both in the meaning of the term and about it being applied to Shapiro. The silly thing here is to continue pushing this when it doesn't improve the article's quality in the slightest. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 04:24, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

I will lose no sleep over this at all. I ignored you two having the debate for months. I decided to chime in because your insistence to deny him the correction is as foolish as his insistence to include it. "Presumptive" is an adjective, it's not a scientifically or legally defined term in an election like this. Engineer-005 (talk) 03:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Added per precedent on 2022 Michigan gubernatorial election Pennsylvania2 (talk) 21:06, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Absolutely not how consensus works on Wikipedia. Only the local talk page discussion is relevant for this article. If it worked your way, anyone could change any article to override consensus on another article. This can only change with more discussion on this talk page. Cease your edit-warring. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 19:56, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

There's a consensus from months ago before filing deadline passed. Shapiro is the only person on the ballot and it seems like you're the only person, who is actively fighting him being listed as presumptive nominee. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 20:20, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

And you are the only one pushing this change. The arguments that were made still apply. Get a new consensus. I am against this becuase it implies a nominating process has already occurred, which is unnecessary. Why is it not enough to say he's the only candidate? What you are trying to do is WP:OR, and doesn't add anything useful to the article. I seriously encourage you to read that policy, because you are still making arguments based on goalposts you have set (the filing deadline), rather than those that are present in reliable sources. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 22:05, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

City and State Poll

City and State verified a poll and reported on it. The pollster's name wasn't included, but it's a real poll. Other internal polls including from Democrats are included, so why not this one? It should be listed. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 16:56, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Anyone have any thoughts? If not, I will add it back.Pennsylvania2 (talk) 19:27, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Doug Mastriano (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Photo quality differences

I see it critical that the Shapiro image differs so much in image quality than from Mastrianos. Reason why? 188.2.181.82 (talk) 13:49, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

The images have to be free use. Any random photo on the internet cannot be used. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 16:05, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Add in the new Trafalgar poll please

https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/pa-gov-1103/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.51.0.238 (talk) 18:03, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

It looks like this is done. —ADavidB 19:57, 4 November 2022 (UTC)