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Talk:2022 Iran–Greece naval incident

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Did you know nomination

[edit]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/world/middleeast/iran-seizes-greek-tankers.html & https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-iran-dubai-5bbb7e35405a91ae9ceffbda17b59475 & https://www.voanews.com/a/6603537.html Created by Aye1399 (talk). Self-nominated at 14:18, 12 July 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, I just haven't been able to find any time for Wikipedia over the past few days. Gatoclass (talk) 03:47, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Review

  • The Background section is sourced to NBC but none of the Background information is in the NBC source. starship
  • Many pieces of information sourced to this AP source are not in the source, or goes further than the source. See the first and second paragraphs of Incident (On 19 April 2022, the Russian-flagged ship Pegas, which was carrying Iranian oil and traveling through international waters in the Aegean, sustained damage while en route to the Peloponnese. On orders from the Anti-Money Laundering Authority, the port officials in Evia's Karystos district confiscated the ship. The reason for the move was that it belonged to the Russian Promsvyazbank, which was under EU sanctions. On 20 April 2022, according to bilateral Greek-US judicial assistance, the US Department of Justice asked for the cargo of PEGAS to be frozen because the sale's revenues will be used to fund terrorism. [...] It was unclear whether the cargo was seized because it was Iranian oil or because the tanker was subject to sanctions because of its connections to Russia. US sanctions are separate for Iran and Russia.) I see that another source Al Jazeera does mention Promsvyazbank and Peloponnese, and I see a Reuters source mentions the "unclear" portion and the "separate" sanctions, but this is still shoddy referencing work. starship
  • The Al Jazeera source is used to cite that The US request was based on the sanctions Washington imposed on Tehran when the Donald Trump administration decided to quit the Iran nuclear deal in 2018. but the source plainly contradicts this, stating It was among five vessels designated by the US on February 22 – two days before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine – for sanctions against Promsvyazbank, a bank viewed as critical to Russia’s defence sector. The vessel’s Russian owner Transmorflot was subsequently designated on May 8. - a clear reference to 2022 under the Biden administration. starship
  • The article's sentences The US request was based on the sanctions imposed on Iran... and It was unclear whether the cargo was seized because it was Iranian oil or because the tanker was subject to sanctions because of its connections to Russia are contradictory. starship
  • In May, Iranian forces captured two Greek tankers and held the crew hostage in the Persian Gulf, leading the ships into Iranian territorial waters. - bolded part needs to be attributed to the Greek foreign ministry like the Reuters source does. starship
  • The action was taken after Greece declared it would turn over to the US 700,000 barrels of Iranian crude oil from a vessel flying the Russian flag that it had confiscated - not in the cited the Reuters source. starship
  • Article: On 8 June, a Greek court overturned a previous ruling allowing the US to take a portion of the cargo on board the tanker flying the Iranian flag near the Greek coast Cited Bloomberg source: A Greek court overturned a decision that allowed the country [Greece?] to seize a cargo of Iranian oil starship
  • Article: On 12 Aug Following Greek authorities' approval of the transfer of the cargo, an Iranian-flagged tanker is unloading oil that the US seized in April but cited Reuters source says An Iranian-flagged tanker is reloading oil confiscated in April. starship
  • Article: The Iranian seizure has been characterized as a threat to the safety of shipping and commerce by Greek Minister of the Merchant Marine Ioannis Plakiotakis - currently cited to Al Jazeera which does not mention Plakiotakis, originally cited to NBC which also does not mention Plakiotakis. How is this sourced? starship
  • Article: Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of Iran, confirmed that the two tankers were taken by the Iranian military in reprisal for Greece assisting the United States in seizing the Lana in April. - not found in the cited NYT source. starship
  • Original hook - no, the Reuters source does not mention anything about two Greek tankers were taken by the Iranian military in reprisal, and it does not exactly say Greece assisting with the United States in seizing an Iranian-flagged tanker, rather tanker seized by Greece and part of whose cargo was confiscated by the United States. starship
  • Alt hook, again, no, the USnews/AP source does not mention anything that two Greek tankers were taken by the Iranian military in reprisal. The source even contradicts the hook that Greece assisting with the United States in seizing a tanker flying the Iranian flag, as the article states Greece's coast guard said it was seized due to suspicions it had breached EU sanctions imposed against Russia due to the war in Ukraine. starship

Overall, this is a staggering amount of errors for such a short article and just two hooks. Many were present when Aye1399 started the article, and it does not speak well about their editing, and the fact that they chose to feature this kind of work on the front page. It is furthermore mindboggling that Sammi Brie missed these and approved the DYK. Thanks to Gatoclass for stopping the approval process. starship.paint (exalt) 06:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wow... I had checked the hooks and thought they looked good, but this is brutal. Thank you, Starship.paint. At the time this was up, I was trying to help move along a lot of long-languishing noms, as DYK had a gigantic backlog a month ago. Thank you for this. (Also, {{purple}} looks nice.) Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the past, Iran has seized oil tankers as payback in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz when ships carrying Iranian oil were halted or confiscated was sourced to Reuters... but I cannot find such information in Reuters, instead I actually find it in the NYT source in the next paragraph. Seems like continued carelessness to me, which is quite concerning indeed. starship
  • Thank you for your time, I'm sorry, I think an error occurred while compiling the contents. and the sources were moved. I will quickly fix the sources.Aye1399 (talk) 12:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regards. In the last paragraph of the news belonging to Reuters, there is the mentioned information, thank you for reading it once more.Aye1399 (talk) 12:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Aye1399: - ah, so what I actually hoped didn't happen ... did happen - you misread the Reuters source. Your text (Iran has seized oil tankers as payback in the Persian Gulf...) goes further than your Reuters source (Iran seized a British tanker ... two weeks after British forces detained an Iranian tanker...). Reuters does not mention "payback" and does not even give any explanation. Reuters is simply saying: Event A happened, then Event B happened, it does not say Event A caused Event B. Misreading sources causes errors, we must be very careful. Luckily, NYT backs your claim. starship.paint (exalt) 13:31, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You now claim that On 19 April 2022 ... Pegas ... sustained damage ... port officials in Evia's Karystos district confiscated the ship. Citation for date is provided to Iran International. Now, Iran International doesn't say "damage" or "confiscated" occurred on 19 April. Iran International only says Greece has impounded a Russian oil tanker off the island of Evia, the Greek coastguard said on Tuesday (19 April). So the coastguard talked on 19 April, but "damage" or "confiscated" could have happened earlier. I believe it did happen earlier, because Iran International itself said Associated Press reported the seizure was Friday (15 April). Plus, the Associated Press source we already use in the article states The vessel had been temporarily seized by Greek authorities on April 15 when it anchored off Karystos. In this particular incident, you have misread two sources you added by yourself. starship
  • Sorry, I may have misled you when I mentioned that "Promsvyazbank" had been mentioned by Al Jazeera. It indeed was mentioned, but you used it to cite The reason for the move was that it belonged to the Russian Promsvyazbank, which was under EU sanctions, but the Al Jazeera source said It was among five vessels designated by the US on February 22 – two days before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine – for sanctions against Promsvyazbank - which means that Promsvyazbank was under US sanctions, not EU sanctions - and meaning that your sentence in the article is incorrect - unless a source is provided. starship

@Aye1399: - I still do not think that ALT1 is fully supported. NYT and AP do not go far enough for us to state ALT1 in Wikivoice. NYT: The two ships were seized in retaliation for Greece impounding an oil tanker in April ... according to reports in two semiofficial Iranian news agencies, Tasnim and Fars News, which are affiliated with the Revolutionary Guards. AP: The action appeared to be retaliation for Athens’ assistance in the U.S. seizure of crude oil. Meanwhile, VOA does go far enough, but VOA is focused on oil, not the tankers. VOA: Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei acknowledged Saturday that Iran took the oil from two Greek tankers last month in helicopter-launched raids in the Persian Gulf. The confiscations [of oil] were retaliation for Greece's role in the U.S. seizure of crude oil from an Iranian-flagged tanker that same week in the Mediterranean Sea over violating Washington's harsh sanctions on the Islamic Republic. You could write a new ALT2 to match VOA. starship.paint (exalt) 03:42, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Furthermore there are still three issues above that I believe are still not addressed ... the "contradictory" statements and the "held the crew hostage" one, and the lede mentioning April 19 despite AP reporting it to be April 15. Sources appear to give different dates, so this is indeed confusing, and has ramifications on whether the vessel was released before or after the U.S. request. starship.paint (exalt) 03:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regards. In the last paragraph of the news belonging to Reuters, there is the mentioned information, thank you for reading it once more.

Aye1399 (talk) 11:38, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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