Talk:2020 Trier attack

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"Attack"

I am not sure "attack" is best for the situation as I have seen "car ramming" used in sources. It is possible to be so shit-faced that you don't remember a thing when hung over the next day. I honestly would wait for a motive here as investigators are not looking into terrorism (per sources). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:56, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've proposed a move per BLP; being blind drunk and killing people happens every day. Maybe he had a motive, but we can't jump the gun before the police say so, that's just common sense. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:08, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The man, heavily intoxicated with alcohol, wanted to kill or at least injure as many people as possible, investigators said. According to Peter Fritzen, chief prosecutor, the motive for the crime remains unclear." Source: https://luxtimes.lu/european-union/42439-trier-car-attack-suspect-charged-formally-arrested Gianluigi02 (talk) 11:52, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Since it has been reported as both an "attack" and "car crash" both are acceptable options. Right now, there is no consensus to move to "car crash". (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 10:55, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Trier attack → 2020 Trier car crash – Per 2014 Glasgow bin lorry crash, WP:BLP, WP:TOOSOON. BBC source doesn't mention "attack" or any deliberate action at all, just that the man was heavily drunk. Maybe this was deliberate, maybe it wasn't, but we simply don't know yet, we've reached a conclusion that the police haven't. In the Glasgow case, six people were killed, because the driver was hiding his health condition before he passed out at the wheel. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:04, 2 December 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. —Nnadigoodluck███ 13:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support - we don't know for certain that the crash was an attack rather than an accident. Some mainstream media sources have called it an attack & assumed it to have been deliberate, but that doesn't mean that we should. Jim Michael (talk) 16:53, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I support the change in to 2020 Trier ramming, rather than car crash. Gianluigi02 (talk), 2 December 2020

The problem with calling it ramming is that it implies it was an attack. Jim Michael (talk) 18:02, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - while "attack" may imply intention, I feel like "crash" explicitly refutes intention and implies a non-intentional accident. At this point we don't know either way, and it's my opinion that "attack" goes less strongly towards explicit intention than "crash" goes towards the opposite. Chris-schannes (talk) 19:25, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Attack clearly states it was intentional; crash implies it was accidental. Jim Michael (talk) 19:57, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support - There is no indication that this was intentional. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Due to fact that this is the only attack/ramming/car crash in Trier, doesn't the year "2020" in the title needs to be removed regardless the eventual name of the article? 36.68.232.33 (talk) 23:37, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - it appears to be the only notable car crash in Trier, so it should be Trier car crash or better still to make it more accurate, Trier SUV crash. Jim Michael (talk) 10:43, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The man, heavily intoxicated with alcohol, wanted to kill or at least injure as many people as possible, investigators said." Source: https://luxtimes.lu/european-union/42439-trier-car-attack-suspect-charged-formally-arrested Gianluigi02 (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support consistent with 2017 Times Square car crash, another case where the criminality has not been determined as a fact. An investigation and/or trial will determine the alleged perpetrator's intentions in due course. Until the event is a crash as well as a deadly rampage incident. • Gene93k (talk) 14:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - When a car drives about 800 meters [1] before it stops, it's not a single "crash". Plus, the incident is investigated by local authorities as a potential murder, i.e. a deliberate attack, and the known circumstances strongly suggest intention (the driver apparently drove in a "zigzag" pattern [2]). Axolotl Nr.733 (talk) 19:19, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support until we have more evidence to the contrary.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- So far, all comments supporting a move have only argued that the term "attack" implies some level of speculation, but haven't explained how "crash" is a more appropriate term. IMO, a car hitting several people at different locations just doesn't constitute a "crash". Axolotl Nr.733 (talk) 15:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.