Talk:2019 Albania earthquake

note on political situation of Kosovo

Was this necessary for THIS article? That issue is very adequately stated in all manner of articles on the Balkans. Seems to me it will be flame-bait for nationalist editors. 50.111.1.254 (talk) 03:28, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I've removed it - I can't see why it's needed. Mikenorton (talk) 09:25, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

If the article says "International response", then the note is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, Kosovo should be listed under Serbia. BobNesh (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Sorry 'Bob' Kosovo is a sovereign state at this time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.1.254 (talk) 02:59, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely necessary is pushing it a bit, readers can just click on the Kosovo link after all. It's something of an improvement that it's now in small script. An edit summary when adding this in the first place would have been a great help. Mikenorton (talk) 18:36, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

List of counties providing aid

As many of you know, the use of flagicons and the list format "Reactions" sections in these disaster articles is actively disliked by many editors. In this article, the listfarm of countries sending aid is further debased by mention of small sums of money sent to Albania. The section should have all flagicons removed, and be trimmed severely. Abductive (reasoning) 05:42, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

I've removed the flagicons. I'll think about how to condense the rest of the information in that section. Mikenorton (talk) 09:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

And someone's put them all back, without discussion. Probably best to leave that section well alone until the initial interest dies away and we can look back at it a bit more dispassionately. Mikenorton (talk) 16:11, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that mentioning sums of money or other assistance somehow debases this article. Its a core part of the event in regards to the assistance provided thus far and i am in favour of its inclusion. On flagicons, they may be disliked by some, but others may not hold that opinion. Unless there is something policy or guideline stipulating their non use, there is not reason to remove it apart from some who may not agree on aesthetic grounds.Resnjari (talk) 16:17, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that it's a policy thing from my reading of MOS:FLAG, although it does say "Words as the primary means of communication should be given greater precedence over flags". I just don't personally see what the flags add. I'm not enamoured of the bulleted list format that we have now, but as I said above there's no rush to find an alternative. Mikenorton (talk) 16:31, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

On flags, it can go either way about finding thing easier etc. Anyway the section on assistance may undergo change in future, but at the moment things are in flux. It gives readers information, especially about those who might donate or contribute through aid and want to know about what's happening in their countries or communities on that front. Best.Resnjari (talk) 16:44, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

I think it is a good thing to mention the amounts and donation as it inspires other people to help a cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike5555500000 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Humanitarian cause aside, the outpouring of donations and aid are part of this event's current story and of course in future it will be part of its history. It's this latter part that makes it relevant for the article.Resnjari (talk) 23:04, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Can someone help me fix the nigeria part of the aid? http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=143587 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike5555500000 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

The Nigeria part is contested. See the thread down below.Resnjari (talk) 00:17, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Just few things because it looks like some one copied my post and turned in politics, when I have presented facts. Turkey was not the first country to send their earthquake and rescue team specialist, unless you have proof to back it up. First country to arrive was Greece with its minister Nikolaos Dendias which arrived himself the very first day http://abcnews.al/termeti-ministri-i-jashtem-grek-vjen-ne-tirane/

and brought two teams of EMAK Special Units for Disaster Management  the very first day.

https://www.faxweb.al/termeti-i-fuqishem-ne-vend-greqia-nis-ndihma-per-vendin/ https://ata.gov.al/2019/11/26/dendias-greqia-mbeshtetje-qeverise-shqiptare-ne-keto-momente-te-veshtira/

Along side Kosovo which partook the very first day, than Italy.

Also all Greek football teams have contributed with aid: http://shqiperia.ch/humanizmi-ne-majat-e-larta-te-gjitha-ekipet-greke-reagojne-per-shqiperine/

In fact Greek units have been the most active of all [with respect to Kosovo which had involved and Albania and Italy],  they saved Klajdi Qato, among many others, When  they could not they where still the main operators directly on front. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL0OA0vtD7I

Turkey special earthquake and rescue barely have mentioned anywhere.

Second of all many specialist have said what was the problem it was not just the earthquake as the grade it was normal, it massive corruption from the local and state government, total disregard for previous specialist urban

and construction planning, and even worst in 2013 which doubled on disregard and abuse, massive abuse with legal licenses construction and illegal  construction  add-ons and the worst of all products for construction which where the last grade  or junk which have been used in constructions as Arben balla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYBLFvUyj3A

and Lule Bozo another specialist confirmed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKlVwZcpc-U

Also the previous earthquake on September of 2019 the government not only did inspect properly and fixed anything of building which had been affected but told people that those building where livable. Because of that this negligence from government the second earthquake carried on and destroyed and gave the final blow.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.122.211.21 (talk) 16:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

What is the issue with the Nigerian assistances it is a substantial sum of money which was provided Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:31, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Fault in infobox

I removed the "Eurasia-African plate" in the infobox because the specific fault in this case is unknown. In the example given in template:infobox earthquake, the 2007 Peru earthquake occurred as the result of movement on the interface between the Nazca Plate and the South American Plate, which is fair enough as that's just one fault plane. In Albania there are many active thrust faults, none of which can be defined as a plate boundary. Also this particular plate boundary is between the Adriatic Plate and the Eurasian Plate. The most specific that we can be for the fault responsible for this earthquake, is that it occurred on a structure within the Ionian Zone of the External Albanides. Mikenorton (talk) 12:11, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, in my original edit (Special:Diff/928251326) which you r/v (Special:Diff/928260692) I added Eurasian-Adriatic-African plate. Then I added Eurasia-African plate (Special:Diff/928336247) citing [1], which you again r/v (Special:Diff/928336247. I think this is semantics, and since infoboxes "summarizes key features of the page's subject" (WP:INFOBOX) I see no issue adding the plates involved (either the 3 or 2) and describing in more detail in the body text the complexity of such. Even Eurasian-Adriatic-African plate complex I'm okay with. If you can find an WP:RS for "it occurred on a structure within the Ionian Zone of the External Albanides" and add that to the article and summarize it for the infobox fault that would be great! Best, comrade waddie96 ★ (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

I disagree that this is just semantics, the fault parameter is there for those cases where we know which fault moved to cause the earthquake. We simply don't know that for this earthquake. It mightn't be a bad idea to add a plate boundary field to the infobox, for those earthquakes that are within a plate boundary zone (which is the majority) - I'll propose it. If I had an RS for the Ionian Zone I would add it, but I don't. Mikenorton (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Incorrect map

This map is not correct! What is 150 km on this map, is, in reality 125 km or so. Calle Widmann (talk) 12:02, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

It's not the first time that I've seen an incorrect scale on one of these shake maps - I'll look for an alternative. Mikenorton (talk) 23:53, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Some IPs who tampered with the map removed Vorë and replaced it with Lezhë. This needs to be corrected. That said, two additions of locations need to be made. The first is Lezhë in its correct location and the second is the town of Laç. Both these places were affected by the earthquake and they need to be added to the map. After all, a state of emergency was extended to them by the state. Best.Resnjari (talk) 11:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I've tried moving the position of some of the labels for clarity. Mikenorton (talk) 12:30, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I've added Laç and adjusted the label_width for Thumane. Mikenorton (talk) 12:50, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Mikenorton, thank you. Much appreciated. Best.Resnjari (talk) 21:15, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

White space

Can we not remove all the white space immediately above the "Aftershocks of the 2019 Albania earthquake above Mw  4.0" table? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:34, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I've had a go at doing that, following on from User:Izno. There are issues with making the table difficult to see on mobile devices and for other accessibility reasons. Ideally I would get rid of the table, as most of the aftershocks are not notable, but if we're going to keep it, I don't think that we want the table to become too prominent. Mikenorton (talk) 16:51, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Avoid putting content inside of scrollbars per WP:Accessibility/(same principle as MOS:COLLAPSE). Either it is important enough to display in full or it is not worth keeping in its current form. I removed that deliberately. --Izno (talk) 16:54, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

I was aware of that, I should probably not be trying to find a middle way that keeps that table, but makes it less overwhelming, so feel free to undo - I'll start another section on the need for the table. Mikenorton (talk) 16:58, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Table of aftershocks

Given the problems with retaining this table and not messing up accessibility, I propose simply removing it. I'm not sure exactly what readers get out of it. I will produce a map of the aftershocks, discriminating between M4-5 and M5+. I think that such a map will be more informative. Mikenorton (talk) 17:02, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Nigeria in the list of countries providing aid

The reference to supposed aid provided by "Nigerian brothers" has been removed by me. They are in fact Indian, have been implicated in a scam and not donated anything. The linked article does not mention them and a search on the website turns up nothing. The edit summary should have reflected this, but due to an error on my side it seemed to as me if my changes hadn't gone through at first. Apologies, I haven't edited much before. --Feurisson (talk) 21:29, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

The content was added on the Nov 29th . I reverted [2] it 1st time around as it had no source. 2nd time around it was redded with a source [3]. Though that news article only mentions the company, other media did report it as Nigerian [4]. Anyway, i am not going to get into the nitty gritty over this and unless there is something to show otherwise it can stay out of the article. The other content is accounted for.Resnjari (talk) 21:39, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Correction: they have not been implicated only accused in their indian branch operations. And the company is based in nigeria and not india. They are a 10 billion dollar company and there is some issue with the security certificate of tirana times website.and as far as donating is concerned some of the counties are accused of many things that does not mean we don’t post the aid on the page. If you have further issues let me know Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:35, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

http://www.tiranatimes.com/?p=143587 Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:36, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Request resnjari to take this into consideration Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:36, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

https://www.syri.net/kronike/297819/kompania-nigeriane-dergon-100-mije-euro-per-te-prekurit-nga-termeti/ Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:38, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

https://indeksonline.net/termeti-i-fuqishem-kompania-nga-nigeria-dhuron-100-mije-euro/ Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:38, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

The above links have the bank swift copy of the wire transfer to the bank for your reference Mike5555500000 (talk) 17:39, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Cool, it checks out. Thanks ! I readd it using these sources. They are detailed and it will put an end to the whole matter. Best.Resnjari (talk) 19:51, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks!! Mike5555500000 (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Bosnia quake

Should we include this earthquake in Bosnia, M5.4, which occurred about seven hours after the initial shock, as an aftershock of the Albania earthquake? Why or why not? 2607:FEA8:1DDF:FEE1:D167:3E7F:8FAF:8010 (talk) 23:15, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Aftershocks are almost all within the area of the fault rupture that caused the original earthquake - the map in the article shows this rather well. The Bosnian earthquake is much too far away to be an aftershock. Mikenorton (talk) 23:21, 3 December 2019 (UTC)