Talk:2018 in heavy metal music

This article was nominated for deletion on 29 May 2017. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Metal

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Is this article really needed at the current point in time? Balag12 (talk) 00:11, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know it's early, but thought I'd create this article since many bands are already planning to release new music in 2018. MetalDiablo666 (talk) 00:20, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@MetalDiablo666: I do not believe that warrants an entire page, as surely that could go under their individual pages, or under the 2017 article? EDIT: Also, the upcoming albums section does not follow the accepted structure for similar articles.Balag12 (talk) 00:22, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The bands from the ‘artists with material in production’ section of the 2017 in heavy metal music article were removed, but most of them weren’t moved to this one. Why is that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C:4003:F365:D10C:8678:3701:5CB3 (talk) 04:41, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in 2018 in heavy metal music

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 2018 in heavy metal music's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "altpress.com":

From Black Veil Brides: Crane, Matt. "Inside Black Veil Brides' 'IV' Listening Party". altpress.
From Myka Relocate: "Myka, Relocate premiere trippy new music video for "Nerve"". Alternative Press. Retrieved 3 March 2016.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 07:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Shinoda EP release inclusion?

I was reverted on the removal of Mike Shinoda's Post Traumatic (EP).

Is there a source calling this a heavy metal release? Or for it having any sort of connection to heavy metal in 2018? Otherwise, it doesn't belong in the list. Just because he was in one of the most popular nu metal bands of all time doesn't make his pop/rap release related to the 2018 heavy metal. Sergecross73 msg me 17:53, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have similar concerns with A Perfect Circle's Eat the Elephant. I'm the sole creator/writer/maintainer of that massive article. I've done extensive research on it. It's not a heavy metal album. Much of its creation and reception section is centered around first and third party reliable source accounts of this. Not being a metal album is a foundation of what the album is, so why would we list it here? This list appears to need some tightening up on its inclusion criteria or something. Sergecross73 msg me 17:57, 18 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hoobastank's Push Pull falls in the territory too. Just because a band released a metal album in the early 2000s doesn't mean its a noteworthy when release when they release an alt rock/pop rock album in 2018, unless you've got a source that directly calls the album a metal album. Sergecross73 msg me 18:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, as long as the artist in question is sourced on their page as being metal, they are listed here. For example, A Perfect Circle is labeled alternative metal and progressive metal, so that's why will be listed here. We're not going by albums but rather artists. TheSickBehemoth (talk) 18:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I understand that's what you're doing, but I'm saying that doesn't make any sense. Why would we go by artist in a section that specifically about albums. Why does one member of a metal band putting out a solo pop/rap album have significance to heavy metal in 2018? It's irrelevant to the genre in 2018. Sergecross73 msg me 18:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because that artist in question is still a large part of the metal genre. For instance, should we omit Opeth's latest albums from these lists because they are primarily "progressive rock", when a bulk of their discography is primarily metal? That would make no sense. TheSickBehemoth (talk) 18:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That makes perfect sense. If Opeth releases a prog rock album in which no sources call it any variant of metal, it should not be listed as an occurrence in that year's heavy metal page, as it had no bearing on the genre that year. Sergecross73 msg me 19:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree in that regard, then.TheSickBehemoth (talk) 19:06, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've started up an WP:RFC below to get more input. Sergecross73 msg me 19:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Album inclusion in "year in genre" articles

There is no consensus in this discussion to allow albums to be included in a "year in genre" article based only on descriptions of the artist in reliable sources. Criteria for inclusion should therefore revert to the default for such situations, which, in the absence of subject-specific consensus elsewhere, should be based on WP:V and WP:NOR; as in, including an album in a "year in genre" list should be based on reliable sources describing said album as an example of said genre. Vanamonde (talk) 13:12, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should an album be listed in a "year in genre" article when there are no sources that verify the album is of that genre, even if there are sources verifying the artist is of that genre?

Example: Should 2018 in heavy metal music list the Post Traumatic (EP) release by Mike Shinoda in its album list? Sources confirm Shinoda sang in metal band Linkin Park, but none call Post Traumatic itself a metal album of any variant.

Example: Should 2018 in heavy metal music list the Eat the Elephant album by A Perfect Circle in its album list? Many sources called the band and their 2000s albums variants of metal, but no sources call Eat the Elephant itself a metal album of any variant.

Sergecross73 msg me 19:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

No inclusion - The album's themselves should be labeled by reliable sources in order to be included in these lists. Yes, Mike Shinoda was rapper for the successful metal band Linkin Park. But just because they released huge metal albums in the 2000s doesn't make the fact that Shinoda released a solo rap album in 2018 relevant to the 2018 heavy metal music scene. Same with A Perfect Circle. A centerpiece of the album's existence is around the fact that reliable sources point out that its not a metal album. So it makes absolutely no sense to list that album off in the 2018 in heavy metal music article. Sergecross73 msg me 19:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Inclusion - I believe it will get too confusing and messy if the list would rely on reliable sources for every single album included here. Many of these album do not have articles, and then there's the issue of having unquestionably metal album included here, but would then have to be deleted if no credible source exists confirming it being a metal release. I believe if an artist (that is sourced) in the metal genre releases an album, it should be noted when they have a new release coming out. TheSickBehemoth (talk) 19:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it could be difficult to manage every single entry, but I don't see why wouldn't remove entries where its plain as day that they've been released, have articles, and are documented by sources as not being in the genre. Sergecross73 msg me 19:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete them all They're notoriously incomplete and unnecessary. This information is better addressed by creating child categories in Category:Heavy metal albums where the album is listed by year. Short of that, a reliable source should be used for the inclusion in this list. That source needs to verify that the album is in a recognized heavy metal sub-genre. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Walter Görlitz that the information on album releases be removed, see 1997 in country music as an example, with a large disorganized section, there is no guideline that determines what constitutes a 'top' album other than a loose criterion that it charted. We could create articles such as List of country albums released in 1997 and categpories. Note that we do have genre-specific categories for some genres at least see Classical albums by year, so I'm quite happy to consider such a proposal, given all the "(Year) albums" categories are incredibly large. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 01:55, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't particularly agree with the notion that we remove the lists - there's a ton of them across various "summary of music" type articles, and I think having a sampling of albums listed is a net positive in comparison to listing nothing. I just thought it was ridiculous to be listing albums that specifically noted as not fitting the genre. I feel like it needs fixing as far as what we include or exclude. Sergecross73 msg me 02:36, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your input, and I agree that we at least need some sampling of album releases, but I am opposed to the list-like format and think prose is better for listing major albums of a given year. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 03:06, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Understandable, but the point of this RFC isn't asking whether or not we should present this in list form or not. That should be a separate discussion. Whether we have it in list form or not, the question being discussed here is conceptual about the scope of these articles. Whether it's in list or prose, the question about content inclusion remains. Sergecross73 msg me 16:00, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all the lists as they are a useful index tool for the public and some are very popular but only include entries where the genre is confirmed in at least one reliable source at the band or albums article, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 11:34, 24 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Watain

I've found out recently that Watain are a well-known vocal Nazi group, unashamedly. I think they should be removed from the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.137.22 (talk) 00:35, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lione/Conti

@Tobi999tomas: while I don't see this supposed rule declared anywhere in this page, Lione/Conti is not a band per se, but a collaborative act involving two musicians (one of them with an article), so an exception could be made. The list is allowing the opposite, anyway (no-article albums/EPs for bands with articles). Victor Lopes ^Fala!•C 21:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]