Talk:2018 Bangabandhu Cup

Philippines or Philippines 'B'

@FilFootyGuy: and @Swanlake1224:, please have a discussion about the issue here. Instead of doing an edit war, we can have a healthy discussion and then take the action likewise.--Anbans 585 (talk) 07:07, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

@Anbans 585: and @MelanieN:, The name of the country is Philippines. Even the scoreboard in Bangabandhu Gold Cup 2018 TV coverage shows "Philippines" not Philippines 'B'. --Swanlake1224

@Anbans 585: and @MelanieN:, The official site also called this team as Philippines not Philippines 'B'. --Swanlake1224

@Anbans 585: and @MelanieN:, In the Philippines national football team wikipedia page, the team in Bangabandhu Gold Cup 2018 is called Philippines not Philippines 'B.'--Swanlake1224

@Swanlake1224: So why exactly does FilFootyGuy want to name the team as Philippines 'B'?--Anbans 585 (talk) 10:36, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

It is sourced that the standard of the Philippine team is the second team. This means it is the second string side aka the 'B' team! Obviously it's the "Philippines" that are competing! But that's not issue here. The issue/question is, "what Philippine team is competing?" As sourced, it is the second string side! Hence, "Philippines 'B'" There are no two ways about it! This is just you, Swanlake1224, being immature about the "name of the country". This is the same thing if it was the U-23's there were competing. You wouldn't just leave it as "Philippines" now would you? Look at the previous editions of the tournament. There were U-23 teams that have competed. Would you still leave it as simply "Bangladesh" (for 2016 edition), or simpy "Bahrain" or "Thailand" etc (2015 edition) when it was the U-23's? Of course not! Your sources are also pointless and don't give the full picture. The Bangladesh Football Federation's website for the 2015 edition for example doesn't list the any of the teams as U-23's yet most teams were the U-23's. There is no issue here except for your immaturity! FilFootyGuy (talk) 11:37, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Well if we consider the previous editions then, ya I think that the label of the 'B' can be considered. But here me out, here is a thing, you both may follow international football right? If so, then you may remember the 2017 FIFA Confederations Cup in Russia. According to many media reports Germany sent their 'B' team to the tournament and eventually won it. Though Germany sent their 'B' team, they played the matches under the name Germany and not Germany 'B', even if its the 'B' team, FIFA awarded points for each of those matches for Germany. Now in the previous edition where the Bangladesh U23 team participated, in that case FIFA didn't award any points for the matches being played by the Bangladesh U23. You can check the fact about Philippines getting points for the matches here.

In a similar fashion, last month Denmark played with a team full of semi-professional footballers, due to rift between their National FA and the player's association. Technically the team which played that friendly was a 'E' team or so, but when the team participated for the match then they represented Denmark and also got points for the match played. All in all, you would never find on a sports website about the match being labelled Denmark 'E' v Slovakia. But you may definitely find the name as the U-23 team if they are participating under the label of the U-23 team.--Anbans 585 (talk) 14:30, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

I think we shouldn't include "B". Officially Philippines send their national team, not national B team. How do you confirm its their official B team and not C or D team? Do you have any official source? আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 14:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Of course Germany played as "Germany"! It's an official FIFA competition! The Bangabandhu Cup is just some small time invitational tournament which started outside of the international window! As for the Denmark situation it's different. There was a rift which made things complicated. In this case, there is no rift or whatever else. The squad of the Philippines automatically proves it isn't the full national team. In fact, the coaching staff is different as well. This team being a second team is sourced which I did myself. This is via the Bangladesh Daily Star. It's in the article in the participating teams section. Within that article, someone from the coaching staff admitted they only brought reserve players. Furthermore, the Philippines' full national team is already in Qatar for a training camp ahead of a friendly with Oman on October 13! You can't have two separate teams in two countries and label them both as the full national team! Imagine if the Philippines reached the final which would have been played on the 12th and then you factor in the friendly on the 13th. There's no way. Again, there is no issue here! "Philippines B" stands! Getting ranking points also doesn't mean squat! India sent their U-23's for the recently concluded SAFF Suzuki Cup. Yet all their matches are recognized by FIFA and therefore got ranking points. So with your logic, India actually sent their full national team.... which is wrong! FilFootyGuy (talk) 15:08, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

@Anbans 585: and @আফতাবুজ্জামান:, In the Philippines national under-23 football team wikipedia page, by looking in the schedule and results, the name is still "Philippines" beside the flag. --Swanlake1224

In India's case the page of 2018 SAFF Championship, refers to the team as India and not India U23, which was the federation's decision. In the subsequent matches many players debuted for India and many scored the first goal. All of those stats, including the official page of the Indian FA states that "the player debuted for the national team", not at any place was there even mentioned once that the "player has debuted for the U-23 teams". Their appearances counted in their national caps. There is a difference between saying that "India has sent a team with majority of U-23 team" and "The Indian team is U-23 and not the Indian team". As for your example of having matches on both 12th and 13th, if you may remember, at the same time of last year's Confederation Cup, Mexico had a similar situation where two of their teams had matches on the same day, the teams where literally on either side of the globe. FIFA on the other hand reported that both of the matches counted as A matches, the Philippines 'B' logic only counts only on paper, in actuality according to FIFA the matches are being considered A FIFA matches, if FIFA considers it a B team then it should also not have accounted its matches as A matches. Therefore, my last argument is that there is nothing bigger than FIFA, if FIFA considers it an A match, then the teams should also have the same label. Writing the B label just disrespects the players and the team, who are out their to represent their national team. If you feel otherwise, then do as you please.--Anbans 585 (talk) 15:57, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Your argument of "there is nothing bigger than FIFA" is absolute trash to say least! FIFA has gone against their own statutes many times in the past! There has been a ton of international friendlies in Asia alone over the years where at least one team has made more than the allowable 6 subs for it to be counted as 'A' match and those have still remained on FIFA's list. That alone already quashes your logic. The only reason the Philippines' matches are on FIFA list is not because the Bangladesh Football Federation president wanted all participants to be the full national teams. Therefore they registered all matches as such! The Philippines was never going to send its full national team, or at least a team that would resemble it. It's the same for last year's CTFA tournament. The Philippines wanted to send their U-22's!! But because the CTFA wanted all teams to be senior national teams, the Philippines ended up sending some half assed team that wasn't the full national but also wasn't the U-22's! As for India, of course the Indian FA would say "national team" because it was for a senior team tournament! This has nothing to do with disrespect or anything of that sort. You're just making random excuses fuel your own argument even though it has no bearing. This is about putting proper labels of what the teams actually are and in this case it's backed up by a source and within that source, someone from the Philippines' coaching staff admitted they only sent their reserves. This combined with the fact that the Philippines' full national team is already in a different country (since the 8th) for a training camp. The full national team can't be in two places at once! Discussion is done! I'm reverting it back to Philippines B. If you revert it, you'll be warned and potentially blocked. FilFootyGuy (talk) 06:51, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Do as you please, as you have been doing since a long time. There is no point of discussion with you who is hostile all the time, and not discussing calmly in a healthy way. As per the issue of reverting the edits, I haven't done that even once. And about blocking, you can't do that as I can appeal to Wikipedia's conflict solving committee about the issue. I came into the picture only to solve your edit war, but it seems that just like previous times you just want to do what your opinion does without proper logic or decision. Thank you!--Anbans 585 (talk) 07:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Well good. About time to end this discussion. No point in discussing anything with you who is so pro FIFA and you take whatever they say as gospel. All your logic is basically "well FIFA says this" and "so and so is on FIFA's list and there is nothing bigger than FIFA". You can't seem to take anything else on board. FilFootyGuy (talk) 11:54, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

@Anbans 585:, He is continuing to edit it back to Philippines 'B'.--Swanlake1224

@SteveMc25:, @Hariboneagle927:, @Babymissfortune:, @DarkStriker22:, @Xtian06: , @Marcolacson:, @Molecule Extraction:, Dear Philippine national football team page editors, please read this discussion. Thank you! Swanlake1224 (talk) 05:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree and don't dispute that the Philippines essentially sent a second team. Note that by "second team", not an official "B national team" designation as recognized by FIFA or the Philippine Football Federation. Yes, one of the coach admitted that the national team is basically a second team or a non-full squad but does he have an authority to label the team a "B" team? The prose mentioning this fact should stand so that readers are clarified about the real strength of the Philippine squad but I don't agree on labeling the team as "Philippines B" not because of it being disrespectful to the players or any sentimentally but because the squad isn't an official B team. Even an email addressed to the Global Cebu requesting the release of their players by the PFF addresses the team as the "Philippines Men's 'A' National Team".

Reading the discussion, FilFootyGuy's definition of an "international match" is more broad than what FIFA defines as such which is a match between national teams of its members. It isn't just any match between national teams with their best players or teams fielded in a competition directly organized by FIFA (such as the confederations cup). They define a "full national team" as an "A team" when "A matches" or "A representative side" are designations or labels by FIFA. Yes FIFA is not only the multinational football body in the world. If Conifa member Kiribati and Australia faced off in a friendly match it would still not be a "A" match because the tie didn't involved both members of FIFA even we assumed both sent their "full national" squads complete with their key players. Kiribati in this hypothethical scenario could have field a "full national team" but still can't be an "A" team because it is a designation by FIFA.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 11:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

• Use Philippines national team (summoned from a thread in WP:Footy). It is common that national FA used an experimental squad (such as Argentine all domestic player squad and/or outside the scheduled "international friendly" window). Moreover, for wikipedia standard and policy, the reliable source say it is the A team (not B team), then it is A. No original research is allowed on interpreting the squad member, and making any conclusion that not appeared on reliable source. FIFA.com database is not the "holy bible"-class source for the matter, but the site listed those matches as senior A caps.

See also those amateur players that received call-up from Denmark national football team due to [professional] player strike. Matthew_hk tc 15:01, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

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