Talk:2018–19 snooker world ranking points

Snooker Low‑importance

	This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
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Cue sports Low‑importance

This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles

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This redirect has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Cue sports to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Lots of high-priority articles need to be created:

List of wanted articles...

Games: A bunch of high-priority game redlinks, e.g. American four-ball billiards (redirs to Four-ball billiards but not specifically covered there)
"Legends": Edwin Kelly, Charlie Peterson (pool player) (all BCA Hall of Famers); George Franklin Slosson, Maurice Daly (billiards player), Frank Ives, George Butler Sutton [not George H. Sutton, the one with no hands]
Male pool bios: Hsia Hui-kai
Female pool bios:
Male three-cushion bios: Dion Nelin & Jozef Bel Philipoom
Female carom bios: Aygen Berk Saygıner
Aristic pool bios: Nick Nikolaidis, Mark Dimick,Sebastian Giumelli, Eric Yow
Unranked in current pool but notable: Mike Eufemia, Shannon Daulton, Jimmy Reid (pool player) [speed pool champ], var. Mosconi Cup players
Non-player figures: Mitch Laurance, George Fels
Five-pins bios: Gustavo Zito
Organizations: Joss Tour
Events: WPA World Nine-ball Championships (pre-1997), BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, World 14.1 Continuous Championship, International Challenge of Champions (pool)
Media and misc.: Iwan Simonis (leading billiard cloth maker), Joss Cues (major cue mfr.), The Baron and the Kid [Johnny Cash film], Ultimate Pool Party [TV show]
And: everyone/thing listed at WP:CUEGAMES, WP:CUEEVENTS, WP:CUEORGS, WP:CUEBIOS, & WP:CUEMISC. Also a Cue sports world records article (many can be pulled from bio articles like Geet Sethi, Guinness Book will provide others, and so will BCA and other orgs., websites and books like Shamos 1999).
Meta: Outline of cue sports (OoK; cf. [1], etc.) – presently redirects to Cue sports, but this is not an OoK page.
Internal pages: Something like: [2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf. [4][5][6]).

Cleanup : Thomas Engert, Marlon Manalo
Copyedit : Jonni Fulcher
Expand : Cue sports techniques#Carom shots (section needs to exist), Straight pool, Alfredo de Oro,Jeanette Lee (pool player)
NPOV : Andy Segal (major WP:COI and WP:V issues, too), Jose Parica (it's bad!); Efren Reyes, Thomas Engert, Dennis Orcollo, Dick Jaspers
Photo : Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports people
Split : List of World Eight-ball Champions - blackball stuff needs own article {draft split from real eight-ball one (draft).
Stubs : loads of players in Category:Cue sports stubs
Update : Arcade game (link to bagatelle, bar billiards, etc.)
Verify : Cue stick (mostly WP:OR!), Frank Taberski (has major fact conflict between BCA & NYT sourcing), Russian pyramid, add sources to Unreferenced BLPs
Wikify : Chicago (pool), Jonni Fulcher
Other :
- Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of nine-ball, timeline of Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
- Form sections: Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
- CopyVio rewrite:
- Clarify: What is the "continuous pool" listed above "14.1 continuous" at Alfredo DeOro?
- Delete or defend:
- Move/Rename (and Redirect):
- Redirect:
- Unorphan:
- Ensure: that rules discussions in game articles & the Billiard techniques article do not violate WP:NOT#IINFO.
- Help fix: WP:CUEBIOS#Pool players (women) is nearly empty!
- Help develop: the lists of WP:CUEORGS and WP:CUEEVENTS
- Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
- Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see Ding Junhui for example).
- Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g. 1965 in sports), using {{subst:Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
- Change:
- Replace:
- Some day: Seek Featured Topic status.
- Plunder: the French article; it does have some interesting tidbits, structure and images. Check out de.wikipedia, etc., as well.
- Inter-wiki: Improve simple:Billiards and foreign-language key articles.

See also: Snooker to-do list

Note: To watchlist this to-do list, click on "watch" at top right of this table. Watching the page it is transcluded on won't watch the to-do list.

Table

Thanks for doing this. Which column is the ranking position based on? I can't figure it out. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is no order as yet because we are still waiting for World Snooker to publish the rota for removing ranking points, but once they do the order will correlate with the cut-off points at each stage through the season, starting with cut-off point 1. Once we get past that stage cut-off point 2 will be activated in the template and the players will be sorted according to that column, and so on. Really the article should not be in main article space while it is in this state but World Snooker has already started the blasted season, so we need the article live so we can start adding in the points! Betty Logan (talk) 08:40, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. Tyvm. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawals count as losses

ZeSnoRo recorded "not enters" for a couple of players who withdrew from the Riga Masters. Can I please point out that when a player withdraws from a match for whatever reason it is recorded as a loss rather than a "not entered". This is done for several reasons:

His opponent is awarded a win for the match, so by definition if somebody "wins" a match then somebody has to lose.
Consistency. Sometimes a player will advance to the venue stage and then withdraw. In such cases the player is recorded as losing. Let's take Sam Craigie as an example at the 2018 Riga Masters: Craigie got a walkover to the venue stage (after Thor withdrew), and then Craigie himself withdrew from the venue stage. As we can see from the official ranking list Craigie was still award 1500 points which corresponds to a first-round win, even though he never played a match. Even though Craigie never played a match the points system treats him as playing both—winning the qualifier and then losing at the venue.
Snooker.org also records both Thor and Rhys Clarke's withdrawals as having entered and lost rather than having not entered.

Best regards. I hope this clears this matter up. Betty Logan (talk) 19:52, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Betty, This is not consistent with what is done in the past seasons. For examples eight players (M. Selt, D. John, K. Wilson, ...) withdraw in RM 2016. They are all noted as DNE. The same apply in IO 2016, in CC 2017... It seems that we can find lot of such examples and none as you explain. Regards.ZeSnoRo (talk) 08:07, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency does not make the other argument invalid. I feel this may have to be brought up at the Snooker WikiProject. However, I'd lean towards entering someone as not entering. The prize money argument is a good one, however, the money is simply for reaching a round, and not for winning a certain number of matches. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If editors have entered this data incorrectly this is unfortunate, but it is incorrect to say this is how it has always been done. Take Snooker world ranking points 2014/2015 for example, Ali Carter withdrew from the Wuxi and was awarded 0 points, or O'Sullivan withdrawing from the China Open and being awarded 0 points. Furthermore, this is how World Snooker do it themselves. They don't publish point sheets anymore, but World Snooker has traditionally awarded 0 points to players who withdraw in the first round. For example, O'Sullivan withdrew from the 2010 Shanghai Masters while John Higgins was not permitted to enter because of his ban; however, you can clearly see on the points sheet issued by World Snooker they awarded O'Sullivan 0 points, while Higgins was not awarded anything. This is also recorded in the same way at Snooker world ranking points 2010/2011. Betty Logan (talk) 08:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is very clear. Thank you Betty. ZeSnoRo (talk) 09:33, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seeding revision 9

According to the World Snooker calendar there was no seeding revision after the Welsh Open but instead after the World Grand Prix. --BlueFire10 ^{Let's talk}_{about my edits?} 14:34, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bollocks. It looks like they changed it. The calendar we have in the article has the revision listed on the 18th. It is easier enough to alter at template level but we'd have to find a fresh source and fix the permalink. The easiest way to do this would probably be to copy out the list to some draft space, re-sort it then copy it back in briefly to get a permalink, and then restore the current version of the article. The Snooker Shoot-out begins tomorrow so it would cause chaos to do this now, but there is a clear 2-day gap after that so that will give me a window to sort it out. We also need a post-WGP ranking list too. Betty Logan (talk) 18:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Managed to track down a replacement calendar (http://www.worldsnooker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Calendar_2018_19_v15.pdf) and post-WGP ranking list: http://www.worldsnooker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/World-Ranking-List-after-2019-World-Grand-Prix-.pdf. This is at least fixable now. Thankyou so much for bringing this to my attention. Betty Logan (talk) 18:20, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Barry Pinches

Did Pinches enter the snooker shoot out as an amateur? I was expecting him to pop up here. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:25, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He must have. No sign of him at http://www.worldsnooker.com/rankings/. Half the top 16 didn't enter it so a bunch of players off the tour were brought in to get the numbers up to 128. Can't see the Shoot Out lasting if it is no longer a draw for the top players. Betty Logan (talk) 22:28, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dunno why players would agree to take part for no money. Unless the deal was prize money yes, ranking points no, which rather makes a joke of the whole thing. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 23:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They will get the prize money, it just won't be translated into ranking points because snooker doesn't have an open tour. I take your point though: if you get someone on a wildcard winning a 100k tournament that could in theory catapult them into the top 64 so why shouldn't they have the ranking?? Unnecessary exclusivity that harms the sport, but World Snooker has often been in its own worst enemy so nothing new there. Betty Logan (talk) 00:51, 28 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]