Talk:2017 24 Hours of Le Mans

85th

This (currently very short) article mentions it will be the 85th running three times. Is this really necessary? -- Scjessey (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

G-Drive entry

G-Drive's two car entry will be run by two different teams, the 22 will be the car from the ELMS run by Dragonspeed and the 26 the WEC car run by TDS. I am therefore wondering what the consensus is on splitting one team into two in order to highlight the fact that they are separate entities run under the same banner? Wesutf1 (talk) 12:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Entry list colors

I think the entry list currently makes inappropriate use of colors. WP:COLOR clearly explains that we should not use colors as a means to convey information, simply because not everyone can see them. But even for a visually unimpaired person like myself it makes the table much more difficult to read. This should be addressed.Tvx1 18:13, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

The ALM and WEC colours are too similar. They might be separate in the entry lists, but if you intend to incorporate then into the results tables, you potentially run into a problem, especially if you want them to be immediately recogniseable at a glance. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:12, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

They are not kept for the results table. I personally was never a fan of their use in the first place and feel that people arbitrarily assign colors to teams that don't qualify as full-season entries. The³5₉ (Talk) 14:40, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

2017 Garage 56

Q: What happened to the 2017 Garage 56 entry? Were there entries that were not accepted? Why not? Is the ACO no longer doing the Garage 56 / New Technology entry thing? Dpep (talk) 02:32, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Qualifying

Is it really necessary to specifically identify provisional pole positions in each class? Surely only the leading overall qualifiers in each class is all the matters? -- Scjessey (talk) 16:49, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Why not? The³5₉ (Talk) 16:53, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Because they are utterly superfluous. In the example of the Canadian GP, it is even more egregious, since Q1 and Q2 times are erased for Q3 contenders. -- Scjessey (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Because it offers people examples of how cars performed under different conditions. If I mentioned the fastest lap time of the Wednesday practice session, which I plan to do, would it be superfluous? The³5₉ (Talk) 23:49, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

LMP2 race lead

The intro makes great play of the fact that this was the first time an LMP2 car led the race. I've toned this down a bit, but I am still slightly concerned that there is undue weight given by including this fact in the lede. After all, it isn't the first time (far from it) that a second- or third-class car has led the race. Indeed, famously, the 1979 24 Hours of Le Mans race was actually won by a Group 5 'special production' car with the fastest prototype (nominally a 'higher' class of car) finishing only fourth. This smells a little of recentism to me, but I'd be interested in others' opinions. Pyrope 21:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

It is something better left in the race summary. And the last time a car not from the top class won the race was 1998, with a GT car. But it is the first time from the modern LMP rules introduced in 2001/2001 that a lower class car led. The³5₉ (Talk) 23:41, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Precisely, although the 911 GT1 was arguably simply a better car than the privateer prototypes that year, whereas the works 936 should have had the legs of the 935 if it weren't for failures. Anyway... Pyrope 22:57, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:2017 24 Hours of Le Mans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Adog (talk · contribs) 21:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

As an American, the first time I heard about a 24-hour race was in Ford v Ferrari (lame, I know). I saw this on our GAN Drive table, and you know what, I kinda want to learn more. I will start this review and likely finish it either Friday, August 18 or Saturday, August 19. I might even finish today, depending. I am going to read up on race car policy and other good articles on races to get a feel of what this article should entail. In the meantime, start your engines! Adog (Talk・Cont) 21:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

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Hello, hello! For my reviews, the following are suggestions for grammar or sentence structure fixes to the prose during my first skim through of the article; for the editor-at-large. If you do not agree with a comment, think it is inappropriate for the text, or not proper, feel free to disregard with a comment:

Prose

Lead

• Comma after "near Le Mans".
• The JMW Motorsport Ferrari 488 GTE shared Robert Smith, Will Stevens, and Dries Vanthoor won the Le Mans Grand Touring Endurance Amateur (LMGTE Am) class. Two things, possible missing word "by" before "Robert". I would add commas before "shared" and "won".
• Derani, Priaulx and Tincknell stayed first in the GT World Endurance Drivers' Championship with Adam, Serra and Turner's category win moving them to second. I would suggest adding commas before "with" and "moving".

Regulation and circuit changes

• ... the standards for car classification were changed. it might be worth noting who or what body changed the standards.
• Failure to complete the race's final lap in under fifteen minutes no longer led a car ... Possible missing word "to" in front of "a".
• The Le Mans ... to The Le Man's ...?
  • Rewritten this sentence to say "The event" instead EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
• Same sentence, "laid out" may be extra words to omit.
• The run-off area where the last right-hand turn goes into the left-hand corner which begins the Corvette corner was widened ... I would suggest adding commas before "which" and "corner".

Entries

Automatic invitations

• When teams received invitations, they were allowed to cars (but not their category) ... Possible missing word "use" before "cars".
  • The cars were allowed to be changed instead EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Entry list and reserves

• In conjunction with the announcement of entries for the 2017 FIA WEC ... "announcing" instead of "the announcement of".
• Two cars were initially named ... it might be worth to note who initially named to two cars.
• The ACO EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Testing

• Porsche remained slower than Toyota with their best lap coming from Bamber's No. 2 car ... Possible comma before "with".
• Aston Martin led LMGTE Am with Pedro Lamy's 3-minutes 58.250-second ... "3-minutes" to "3-minute".
• The session ended less than fifteen minutes early, when Roberto González's No. 25 Manor ... I would omit the comma here.

Practice

• Roberto Lacorte slid the Cetilar Villorba Corse Dallara into the Mulsanne corner gravel trap, and abandoned the car. Delete comma here as these are not independent clauses (my acronym for later use; NIC) being linked together.

Qualifying

• If I am reading correctly, "practise", in: Due to a significant practise incident in the first Road to Le Mans race ... should be "practice" because it is a noun, not a verb.
• Matthieu Vaxivière put TDS Racing's Oreca on provisional pole ... Possible missing word "the" in front of "provisional".
  • The phrase "on provisional pole" is normal usage in BrEng EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
• Jani and Bernhard in the two Porsches lapped quicker, and moved to second and third. I would remove the comma here, NIC.
• ... but Kobayashi's time was not bettered. Two things here. Comma before "but". "bettered" is awkward. Maybe "bested"?
• Lapierre improved early on, and was fifth Remove comma here per NIC.
• first class to first-class?
• All five manufacturers in LMGTE Pro were within a second of Turner's lap, with the fastest Ford in fifth courtesy of Ryan Briscoe; Antonio García sixth for Corvette ... Semi-colon to comma here?
• Another first class change?

Qualifying results

• If British dialect, "gray" should be "grey".

Warm-up

• fourth-fastest to fourth fastest?
• Briscoe' No. 69 Ford ... to Briscoe's No. 69 Ford ...?
• ... made contact with the barriers before stopping in the gravel trap, and returned to the pit lane for repairs. I would delete comma, NIC.
• Vincent Capillare to Vincent Capillaire?

Race

Start to evening

• two-and-a-half-minutes to two and a half minutes?
• Sørensen relinquished the LMGTE Pro lead to Daniel Serra's sister No. 97 Aston Martin, with the No. 67 Ford in second. I would add a comma before "No. 97".
• Vaxivière unsettled the front of his TDS Racing Oreca while braking for the first Mulsanne chicane and moved left towards Pierre Kaffer's unseen No. 82 Risi Ferrari, which he was lapping in traffic. This could be a sentence that can be broken into two for clarity. It could look like: ... Mulsanne chicane. He moved left ...
• Kaffer was unhurt, but a lengthy slow zone was imposed ... needs clarity as to who imposed the slow zone.

Night to dawn

• Olivier Pla beached the No. 66 Ford at the left-hand ... I believe readers will read "beached" as Beaching (nautical). I would rephrase to another synonym.
• Same sentence, "it was recovered" I assume here the car/vehicle. If they recovered the vehicle, I would rephrase to No. 66 Ford was recovered ...
• The car briefly caught fire as a result, and Lapierre drove on hybrid power before being asked by his team ... might read better as As a result, the car briefly caught fire, and Lapierre drove on hybrid power before being asked by his team ...
• Nicolas Prost's No. 31 Rebellion Oreca car entered the garage for an inspection due to reported a gearbox problem "reported a" to "a reported".
• ... Emmanuel Collard crashed the No. 28 TDS Oreca into the tyre wall exiting the Porsche Curves at high of speed. "high of speed" to "a high speed".
• AF Corse were caught out by the safety car's timing and brought both their cars into the pit lane ... is a little unclear at fir"st. I would consider rephrasing to AF Courses' cars were caught out by the safety car's timing and brought into the pit lane ...

Morning to finish

• The No. 95 Aston Martin relinquished the LMGTE Pro lead to Jordan Taylor's No. 63 Corvette which cycled to Makowiecki's No. 92 Porsche ... I would add a comma before "which".
• Stanaway drove to the pit lane for quick repairs, and was relieved by Thiim Remove comma as NIC.
• I know there is a bit of repetition in the passage for the cars, but for adjective uses in the instance Adam's No. 97 Aston Martin attempted to pass Taylor's No. 63 ..., "attempted" could be "tried" as "attempting" appears in the sentence before.
• I would consider adding a subsection title before the last paragraph here "Finish", and leave prior subsection to "Morning".

Race results

• pe rcent to per cent.

References

• For 20, I would suggest making the source into a Bibliography section and the page numbers as a Template:Sfn for clarity. Readers will have a hard time navigating which page number belongs to what passage in the prose.
• 29, "crash.net" as "Crash"?

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Additional comments or concerns

• I have not been doing this, but I might suggest adding {{British English}} to the talk page for reader clarification. Some topics I have reviewed use different dialects of English, and sometimes it is not clear whether the article uses one or the other. I believe this article uses British English, or at the very least, not in the American-style.
• Ensure that commas are used consistently per WP:Oxford comma. For example, in the lead: "Toyota's Sébastien Buemi, Anthony Davidson, and Kazuki Nakajima finished ..." and "Oliver Jarvis, Thomas Laurent and Ho-Pin Tung of Jackie Chan DC Racing's Oreca 07-Gibson ..." are different. There are also some inconsistencies in the body.

Alright, the article's prose are good at a skim through. Mostly grammar or commas or minor sentence structure issues. No major problems, but I will go onto the full read through after a break. Adog (Talk・Cont) 19:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

• MOS:DUPLINKs: "Porsche overtook Toyota" are both dup-links in the lead. "Corvette" in "Testing". "pole positions" in "Qualifying results". "safety car" in "Night to dawn". "Spirit of Race" in "Morning to finish".
• For the lead's first paragraph, I think more is needed here. I am looking at 2013 24 Hours of Le Mans and 2014 24 Hours of Le Mans as examples. I think this paragraph would also see improvement if you broke the first sentence up, as it is also a rather lengthy statement. Readers will at least want to have a sentence about how many entrants there were, testing/practice, and who qualified for the race, anything else of note.
• In the lead: Bamber, Bernhard and Hartley now led the World Endurance Drivers' Championship lead with 83 points ... They led then, but this makes it sound like they are presently leading the WED. I would consider rephrasing this sentence, maybe: After winning the 2017 iteration of Le Mans, Bamber, Bernhard and Hartley led the ...
• In "Regulation and circuit changes", you could link the 2016 24 Hours of Le Mans to "the 2016 race".
• Same sentence, ...when the lead car failed on the final lap ... is unclear. I assume, as it states later in the paragraph, it is about failing to complete the final lap. If so, I would add that here.
• Same section, I would replace "which begins" with "beginning" to reduce words. That sentence is a bit to navigate in your head, so making it straightforward in any way would help benefit the structure.
• In "Testing", switch On June 4 to On 4 June.
• Same section, ... Dunlop Curves gravel trap. to ... Dunlop Curve's/Curves' gravel trap?
• In "Post-testing balance of performance changes", The LMGTE Pro-category Corvettes had their performance reduced with an air-restrictor reduction uses the instance of "reduce" twice. I would change the former, possibly with "lowered" or "diminished" or "decreased" or another synonym.
• In "Practice", possible wikilink "tyre barrier" to Tire wall.
• In "Qualifying", possible wikilink "yellow flags" to Racing flags on yellow flags?
• In subsection "Morning to finish", as above about the term beached, I feel like the instance in: Negrão lost the No. 35 Signatech Alpine's hold on third overall to Piquet's No. 13 Rebellion car in the final hour when he slowly beached the Alpine in the gravel at Arnage corner while attempting to rejoin the circuit should be changed.
• In "Post-race", Oreca president Hugues de Chaunac echoed Toyoda, suggesting that hybrid systems be less convoluted. is a bit unclear. I would add details from the source. Mainly how the "state of LMP1 hybrid racing" was "'too complicated'" or how the car was "'too complicated' of a car" to possibly operate or compete with.
• Same section, the sentence starting with Bamber, Bernhard, and Hartley ... same as per the lead issue highlighted above.

OK, the full read through did not present any problems for the article's contents. Onto a spot check review, with a possible checkered flag win in this article's future. Adog (Talk・Cont) 02:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

• Spotcheck: In "Background", for ref. 5's paragraph, I would suggest re-titling the reference for each figure/sentence because I got confused about where the numbers came from initially for two reasons: I did not know the reference linked to a page where the tabs were not independent pages and I did not know how to add simple numbers since I am unfamiliar with this racing series (lol). For any readers that happen upon this, the figures are from adding GBR and BEL together.
• Spotcheck: Reference 28 is a deadlink. Archived version?
• Spotcheck: In "Qualifying", is the sentence The Toyota returned to the track with ten minutes remaining, but fell to fourth as Buemi could not better its best time supported by this source. I am reading the source and to me I am not getting the connection or maybe I am missing context.
• Spotchecks: The "Post-race" section, I would double check to see if there are any quotes that should be double quoted (or a quote within a quote). For instance, Todt is quoted as "great for racing" which should be in the Wiki-article "'great for racing'" and Tung quoted "extremely important. Not just to win here at Le Mans, it’s so special, but also for the World Endurance Championship, it’s a very important race" should be "'extremely important. Not just to win here at Le Mans, it’s so special, but also for the World Endurance Championship, it’s a very important race'".

Well written + verifability

The article is well written by the editor, with only minor grammar or sentence structure errors. A general manual of style is followed for the article. The article is referenced with a variety of reliable sources. The reference layout looks good, no major issues there. The article looks good in terms of spot checks, I have some questions that are above. Most of it might be racing jargon I am not personally knowledgeable of, if so or if you know if there are instances, then I would change them for the average spectator to understand. Copyright/plagiarism/close paraphrasing, Earwig seems good on the spotchecks as well. Most of what is highlighted is quotes or general words that are unavoidable for terminology's sake. Adog (Talk・Cont) 22:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Broadness + focus + neutral

The article presents a broad enough and focused perspective of the 2017 Le Mans iteration. The article is neutral in its content. Adog (Talk・Cont) 02:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Images + stability

The images are relevant to the article, and their paperwork looks to be in order. The article is stable, with no ongoing or active edit conflicts. Adog (Talk・Cont) 19:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

• Alright @EnthusiastWorld37: the article is looking good after some check-ups listed above. In terms of the other article for the Le Mans I will be reviewing, I might be a little late. I will get it fully done either tonight or early tomorrow morning. I had some hiccups today. Adog (Talk・Cont) 22:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
  • @Adog: I have made various changes to the article based on the changes above and have commented where applicable. What else needs addressing? EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 16:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

    @EnthusiastWorld37: Word. I will check the article another through real quick to make sure it is all good. Should be within two hours. As for the other review, my apologies. New job and forget to bring my laptop to do it while at work. My comments will be back for that one tonight. :) Adog (Talk・Cont) 21:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

    I am going to pass it. I will be in the article editing just a couple of things to double-check. These things will not make or break the article, but I do not want to stifle you as you made incredible efforts! Congrats! :) Adog (Talk・Cont) 00:49, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.