Talk:2016 FA Cup final

Error in article

The FA Cup runners up will go into the Europa league if the winner has already qualified for the Champions league. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mufc4ever7 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

No they don't. That was changed in 2014, that's why Villa didn't go in the Europa League last year. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 18:31, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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Comments on lead

I don't know enough about football to feel comfortable making substantial edits, but as a reader I believe the article will benefit from some clarification on these sentences:

• the world's oldest football cup competition - the list of oldest football competitions has this as the oldest football competition. This sounds more significant. Perhaps the world's oldest football competition? It also removes the awkward "cup".
• in a repeat of the 1990 FA Cup Final - is "repeat" the right word? Contextually it sounds like it's a rematch (repeat might imply the same outcome, though that might just be me). Is this the first time they've competed at this level since 1990? If so, I think the sentence would benefit from a minor expansion.
• Manchester United or United - the article uses "Manchester United" for the entire lead except the last paragraph, where it switches to "United".

Anarchyte (talk • work) 07:45, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Anarchyte, I'm working on getting this to GAN, and I usually address the lead as the last item so I'll take your comments into account when doing so. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:55, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

No worries. If you want a pair of eyes before running the gauntlet, feel free to shout. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:04, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

If you'd like to do the GAN, that'd be great! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:13, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I might be able to take a look if I get some time, assuming my lack of football knowledge wouldn't be too detrimental. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:44, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Far from it, reviewers with experience from outside the subject matter should be encouraged! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:11, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2016 FA Cup Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Anarchyte (talk · contribs) 01:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

I'll try to get around to doing this by the end of the day. Anarchyte (talk • work) 01:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

That should be enough for now. I'll look over the rest of the article in a few hours. Anarchyte (talk • work) 09:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• It was the 135th FA Cup final overall and was the showpiece match of English football's primary cup competition, the Football Association Challenge Cup (FA Cup), organised by the Football Association (FA). - This sentence is in the wrong order. We use the term FA Cup before defining it and we link its second use. Similarly, we use FA without mentioning the Football Association and we link its second use. I don't think we need to define FA because we're doing so with FA Cup, so perhaps It marked the 135th final of the Football Association Challenge Cup (FA Cup) and was the showpiece match of English football's primary cup competition. If you feel like the organised by the Football Association (FA) part cannot be excluded, consider appending it to the end of [...] on 21 May 2016 at Wembley Stadium in London, England.

  Agreed, it's jarred a bit for me in the past so thanks for the suggested rewrite, implemented as such. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• which was played in front of 88,619 spectators - live spectators? One would imagine the TV broadcasts would have a large viewing too.

  I think it's generally accepted that spectators implies live audience. Television audiences are usually called "audiences". The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• had brought down - tackled? Not sure what this means. Also, remove "had".

  Ok, fouled. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• After coming on as a second-half substitute, Jason Puncheon gave Crystal Palace the lead - consider After coming on as a second-half substitute for Crystal Palace, Jason Puncheon [helped secure/gave the team/etc].

  I'm not entirely convinced what's there isnt saying the same thing. I've replaced "struck" with "scored" to make it abundantly clear. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  That works. Anarchyte (talk • work) 09:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• in the Manchester United goal - not sure what this means. Goal area?

  Goal, as in Goal (sports), linked, but it's a pretty basic term. Goalkeepers are "in goal". The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Ah, didn't consider that. I'll unlink it though because after some consideration it was fine as it was. Anarchyte (talk • work) 09:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• The lead lasted three minutes as Juan Mata deflected volley beat Wayne Hennessey, the Crystal Palace goalkeeper - little jumpy. Consider The lead lasted three minutes before Juan Mata deflected a volley to [score against?/beat?/not sure] Wayne Hennessey, the Crystal Palace goalkeeper.

  There was an error in there. Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• then shot from distance - too much detail for the lead.

  Not really, the goal was quite special and shooting from distance into the top corner is not common. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Crystal Palace

• drawn away - This refers to an away game, yes? Can "drawn" be replaced with a different word, at least for the first use? Something a little more descriptive because my first impression of the term "drawn away" is to become disinterested ("He was drawn away from his work").

  Rejigged a little. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• eight changes to their team - If applicable (the source wasn't much help), change to eight roster changes.

  In BritEng, we never call it a roster. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Huh, never knew that. Ignore. Anarchyte (talk • work) 12:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Crystal Palace went into the match without a win in the league - This is likely just because I'm unfamiliar with the topic, but hasn't the article spent two paragraphs explaining all of Crystal Palace's wins? Are these not league wins?

  No, they are FA Cup wins. The league and the FA Cup are completely independent competitions. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• the spot - not sure what this means.

  Penalty spot. Trying not to repeat penalty. Reworded. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• stretchered off the pitch after half an hour - presumably this means that he was injured and subsequently stretchered off half an hour into the game, but it could be interpreted as he was stretchered off thirty minutes after the incident. Might want to clarify.

  Yep, reworded. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Manchester United

• The source does not mention a disallowed goal from Cheikhou Kouyaté.

  The source says "Cheikhou Kouyate, the latter ruled narrowly offside as he headed in a rebound" which means to say Kouyate scored with a header but the goal was disallowed because he was adjudged to have been offside, so I made it easier to understand! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Background

• Source 13: Why are we using an archived version from 2008 for statistics on teams in 2016? The site is live and there's an archived copy from 12 May 2016.

  Both are there, it's just that "url-status=dead" means the archived link is listed before the main url. That's usually applied by a 'bot, but as you say, it's live so I've deleted that url-status parameter and all should be fine. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:44, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Excluding a url-status defaults to dead. I've added a url-status=live to the offending reference and changed the archiveurl to the 2016 one. Anarchyte (talk • work) 12:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Sources 16 & 17: I'm not sure if I'm reading these right. The article states Dwight Gayle scored 7 goals in 11 appearances, but the source says 8(8) 3, presumably something like 8 appearances resulting in 3 goals? Ditto for other players.

  8 (8) 3 means 8 starts, 8 appearances as as substitute and 3 goals. There are four columns, one for each competition. I added the data together to get to the answers in the article (basic SYNTH). The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:44, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Gotcha. Anarchyte (talk • work) 12:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Source 24: Does not include reference to the Tinie Tempah songs or the NHS Trust Choir, from what I can see. Is it not on page 14?

  Removed songs (who cares) and added link. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:47, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  On a second run through, DJ Charlesy is also missing from both sources. Anarchyte (talk • work) 12:22, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Gone, not notable, borderline trivia. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:30, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• 4–1–4–1 formation does not link to a section.

  Removed section link. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:48, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

First half

• Blind's pass on ten minutes - should this say at ten minutes?

  I think this may be ENGVAR, on ten minutes, in the tenth minute... but oddly not "at" ten minutes... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  I use British English whenever possible and I rarely come across "on x minutes". It's usually "at [time]", like "at ten past..." or without any prepositions, like "it happened ten minutes in". Then again, I live in Australia so there's not as much consistency between each speaker. How about we change it to pass ten minutes in? Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Rooney then struck a shot from distance, taking a deflection of Dann, but Hennessey gathered the ball at the second attempt - convoluted. Did Rooney get the ball from Dann or did Dann reflect Rooney's shot? It's not been mentioned that this was the first attempt, so "second" may be unnecessary. for the next attempt?

  I've re-worded, see if that works for you? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  It's better, but it's still a little vague. If the Dann deflected the ball, can we say the ball [was deflected by/took a deflection from] Dann, or if he reflected it, can we say the ball reflected off Dann? I'm also not certain about what gathered by Hennessey at the second attempt means. The article doesn't state who took the shot after Dann defended the first shot. I think if we introduce something like [deflection by/deflection from/reflected off] Dann, [player] took [a/another] shot, but the ball was gathered by Hennessey [in/at] the second attempt this clarity issue would be resolved. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  I think it's as good as it's going to be really without losing the kind of cadence of a match report which I'm trying to do while remaining understandable and open to all. There was no second shot, Hennessey just didn't gather it first time round, he took two attempts to gather it. I've clarified that. The ball "deflected off" Dann, for sure, not reflected or anything on that theme... See if it works now? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Carrick's shot from 25 yards (23 m) went high over the Crystal Palace bar before Rojo became the first Manchester United player to be booked for a foul on Ward - this might make sense to someone who watched this live, but in prose this series of events seems disjointed. The booking took place two minutes later, too. Changing before to and two minutes later would solve this IMO. Secondly, for a foul on Ward can probably be shortened to for a foul. Unless I'm wrong and the article excludes it/I missed it, no other player was fouled because of an incident with Ward.

  I've reworded but left Ward in as I'm often asked who or with whom did the foul take place? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  If that's the case, what about Rojo fouled on Ward and became the? Similar to what you did for the issue in Second half. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Ok, you have it! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Second half

• Dann became the first Crystal Palace player to be booked for a foul on Rashford - similar problem as above. Ignore if multiple people fouled on Rashford, otherwise consider to be booked for a foul.

  I've revised the order to try to compensate for your comment and my response above, let me know if you think it works. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Extra time

• Zaha went down while being challenged by Blind but Clattenburg turned down the Crystal Palace appeals for a penalty - very minor, but the word "down" is used a couple of times within a few words. I reckon this sentence would benefit from turned down becoming declined.

  Agreed, I hate quick repetition. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• the match ended 2–1 to Manchester United - minor reword proposal: the match ended 2–1 in favour of Manchester United.

  Hmm, not convinced, but I'll revise it a different way to be clear. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Post-match

• I changed "sacked" to "dismissed". It's less accusatory.

  Okeydokey, no problem. RS call it "sacked" but sure. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

  Sack lists it as a slang term, and the OED prefers "dismissed" or "discharged". Might be best to avoid. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Conclusion

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Just waiting on the above issues to be resolved and we should be good to go. Anarchyte (talk • work) 13:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Anarchyte lovely, thanks so much, it's alway great to get a different set of eyes on an article like this, I really appreciate the work you put into the review. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: I've responded above to your replies. We're getting close! Let me know if you struggle to find a reviewer for 2020 FA Cup Final and I might find some time. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Anarchyte okay, tinkered and chipped away at the football lingo a bit more, how is it now? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Perfect. I'm quite happy to pass this now. Anarchyte (talk • work) 15:25, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! If you do have a spare bit of time for another review, any of my other GANs, especially the 2020 FA Cup final, that would be great. Cheers! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:1872 FA Cup Final which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)