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Seniors that will likely be selected

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Is it appropriate to have a section identifying those Seniors that will be in draft pool likely to be selected? 153.48.247.250 (talk) 23:52, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The criteria in the section states" Players who do not meet the criteria for "international" players are automatically eligible if they meet any of the following criteria:

They have completed 4 years of their college eligibility."

That includes seniors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2E1C:EDB0:2C5B:DDE6:E1F3:F970 (talk) 00:52, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - with undergrads, internationals, draftees invited to the green room (which will include the best of these seniors) and as of last year a section of underclassmen who chose to stay, there is already a lot of information in this article that at the end of the day will distract from the main content - who was drafted and by whom. Also, what is the objective criteria used to list seniors? It's impossible to have a full list and it's difficult to predict who will be drafted. We haven't ever added these before, and I'm not really seeing the burning platform to do it now. I will also invite members of WP:NBA to join this discussion. Rikster2 (talk) 01:24, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I would point out that the text says: "In addition to every college players who has completed their college eligibility and every "international" players who was born on or before December 31, 1993, the following players would also be eligible for selection in the 2015 NBA draft:". This indicates it is assumed that seniors and internationals born before that date are eligible PLUS "the following players," who last year included people like PJ Hairston and Cleveland Melvin. Rikster2 (talk) 01:37, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I could support something like the following seniors were recognized as All-Americans by one of the four major selectors and a second statement that the following seniors were conference players of the year. N.B. that every year I include a section in the Big Ten season article beginning with a list of seniors who were all conference like you can see at 2014–15_Big_Ten_Conference_men's_basketball_season#2015_NBA_Draft. Only half of those guys end up getting drafted, but it is a reasonable summary to include for posterity in such a section.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, why would such a list be relevant in a draft article if most of these people, wouldn't be drafted? It's in the NCAA season article, which it feels like is the appropriate place for it. This isn't a summation of the college season, it's a summation of the June 25 NBA draft. Rikster2 (talk) 01:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what would be the selection criteria of which seniors are listed. I wouldn't want a list of every college senior.—Bagumba (talk) 06:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I initially posed the question. Based upon mock drafts, it would fairly easy to narrow down the list of eligible seniors to those likely to be drafted. In this particular year, no more than 10-12 seniors are predicted to be drafted. Three questions that come to mind. Is the information relevant to the article? The answer to that would be 'Yes'. Identifying eligible seniors likely to be selected in this year's draft is relevant to a draft page. Can this information be obtained by reputable sources? The answer to that would also be 'Yes'. Most of the sites that have mock drafts meet the Wiki usability standards. The final question would be, is there any harm done by listing this individuals? My opinion, the answer to that is 'No', so long as the information is coming from sources that meet Wiki standards.153.48.247.250 (talk) 20:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would also suggest that identifying those underclassmen that chose not to declare for the draft as having less relevance to the draft article, than identifying those seniors likely to be selected. 153.48.247.250 (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why not just include a list of players invited to the Green Room when available and be done with it? The best seniors will be on that list. It's an objective list. The problem with a subjective list (and we can get into issues such as which draft sites are used, which WOULD be a issue - some prominent ones are just well publicized fan blogs) is that you start with a list of reasonable names, then you have people adding their pet players to it. For instance, the first list added had Ryan Boatright on it - he is in no way, shape of form a lock to be drafted in the first round. Just list those who have to formally declare (underclassmen, international players) and once the draft is done all of the seniors selected will be on there too. This isn't a draft site and it doesn't need to contain exhaustive lists of the universe of players teams could choose from. I am perfectly OK if we opt NOT to add players who return to school, it was just something added last year. Rikster2 (talk) 21:22, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The question of limiting the list to just those invited to attend the draft could also be applied to all of those underclassmen that declared. If the standard is attempting to narrow down just candidates that are going to be drafted, then some of the underclassmen being identified as declared for the draft don't actually get drafted. Some reputable sites with mocks from AP sportswriters reasonably predict the players that get drafted. I do see the possibility that some individuals may attempt to simply list players from their favorite teams that have no possibility of being drafted, but that is where the standard of citing reputable sources would be able to weed those out. Excluding individual user blogs from people that are more or less running fanblogs, sites like CBS, ESPN, USAToday, NBADraft, Walterfootball, and Bleacherreport have mocks from AP sportswriters. Those sites would also meet Wiki usability standards. I'm not strongly for or opposed to the inclusion of seniors likely to be drafted. But I do think, that if managed properly, would be of benefit to the page. I can see the potential for some disputes to arise from who should be identified and who should not, but overall I think it could be reasonably worked out.153.48.247.250 (talk) 00:17, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
except that every sports site keeps a running list of underclassmen who declare and that list is exactly the same because these players must file paperwork to declare. Sites do not keep a consistent list of seniors who are eligible in this manner. Rikster2 (talk) 00:37, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Years after the fact, the most notable part of a draft is who got drafted, and who ultimately made the NBA but wasn't drafted that year. Who was eligible but wasn't drafted is most relevant to the player's bio, if they are even notable enough to warrant an article. Now if people want to spend their time adding these news updates ahead of the draft, I don't mind if it is verifiable (I'd help delete it if there was a consensus to not list it). Listing a subset of seniors is likely more trouble than its worth to reach a consensus on the inclusion criteria. In the long run, it's not even going to be notable for this article to mention that someone like Joshua Smith is a senior if he ultimately is not drafted.—Bagumba (talk) 01:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please participate in the discussion about list of eligible players in draft articles. — MT (talk) 08:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Early-entry withdrawals

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FYI

You are invited to join a related discussion about handling withdrawals at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association#NBA_draft_early-entry_withdrawals. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 17:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2015

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Mateusz Ponitka should be added to the automatically eligible players list. He played for BC Oostende in Ethias League (Belgium). He withdrew from draft in 2014 which makes him automatically draft-eligible in 2015. [1] 83.21.221.136 (talk) 19:37, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This article is no longer Semi-Protected, so you can now edit the article yourself, but please ensure that any additions are properly sourced, to reliable sources and you maintain a neutral point of view - Arjayay (talk) 15:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for semi-protection

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For protection from vandalism in all areas of article. Especially in the players selected section.

Not done: requests for increases to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 02:48, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The page is now semi-protected for the next 48 hours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rube Dali (talk • contribs) 02:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality of players

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NBA draft pages include the category of "nationality" of the players drafted with the qualifier being "the player's national team or representative nationality"; however, I do not understand the informational purpose of this category on an NBA draft page anyway. Why would including "USA" for an American-born and Team USA eligible player such as Karl-Anthony Towns (or Jamaica in the case of Patrick Ewing in 1985) compromise the integrity of the information listed on these draft pages? If a player has both, a history of representing one country in international competition and a separate nationality by birth with past or present eligibility to compete for that country, then why cannot both be included by the player's name with the qualifier being "and/or" instead of just "or"? WildManKY (talk) 04:11, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was going to ask about that myself (especially since there's been some edit-warring lately). I'd be fine with listing both nationalities. Towns was born and raised in the US. I'm not sure if he's still eligible to join Team USA, but I think we sometimes give too much weight to sporting nationality, which only represents a small part of his everyday life. In some cases, players can represent a country they've never even visited. Zagalejo^^^ 18:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If it can be verified the player has citizenship both places this should be fine. Not sure any consensus went into the note that it's only who they've played for per FIBA. Rikster2 (talk) 19:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of Towns, he joined the Dominican team because his mother is Dominican; however, this decision allowed him to practice with and compete against a more experienced and higher quality opponent. If he had joined the USA team, then he would have been limited to his age group at the time. Because he has not competed in international competition since turning 18, he still has the option to choose to represent Team USA. There are examples of players on the 2009 NBA draft page that include multiple nationalities. In the case of Nick Calathes, he did play for the age-appropriate U-18 USA team prior to playing college basketball. However, as he got older, he was no longer at the same level of the the adult-aged Team USA players, so he joined Greece instead. This decision did not make him any more Greek than American, nor does it have any significance on his status as an NBA draftee, which is where this information is being displayed. WildManKY (talk) 21:01, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:SPORTFLAGS states that "Flags should never indicate the player's nationality in a non-sporting sense; flags should only indicate the sportsperson's national squad/team or representative nationality." Therefore the nationality column is defined as a column to list the player's representative nationality. In this case, Towns' representative nationality is Dominican Republic since he already played for them in 2013. I know MOS:FLAG seems to give too much weight to sporting nationality, but I believe it's there for a reason. Imagine if we have Canadian, British and South African flags next to Steve Nash or 4 flags next to Joakim Noah in every table they're in.
Regarding his availability to represent Team USA, FIBA Regulation article 3-23 states that:
  • A player who has played in a main official competition of FIBA after having reached his 17 birthday may not play for a national team of another country. However, in exceptional circumstances the Secretary General may authorise such a player to play for the national team of his country of origin if he is ineligible to play for such country according to this article 3-23 and if this is in the interest of the development of basketball in this country.
Towns has represented Dominican Republic in 2013 FIBA Americas after he turned 17, therefore he need an exception if he wants to represent Team USA. Change of national team affiliation is very rare but not unprecedented. 2009 draftee Emir Preldžić played for Slovenia at the age of 21 and has been representing Turkey since 2011. It's still possible for Towns to apply for an exception, but for now his representative nationality (per MOS:SPORTSFLAGS) is still Dominican Republic. — MT (talk) 11:34, 11 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Emmanuel Mudiay representative nationality

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Since Emmanuel Mudiay has been called into the United States Select Team, his representative nationality for the purposes of this article should be changed from DR Congo to United States.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.21.206.98 (talk) 02:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2016/06/2016-usa-mens-select-team.aspx
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