Talk:2011 India–Pakistan border skirmish

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2011 India–Pakistan border skirmish article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

India: Jammu and Kashmir Low‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Jammu and Kashmir (assessed as Mid-importance).

Military history: Asian / Indian / South Asia / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	Indian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Pakistan Low‑importance

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is within the scope of the Indian and Pakistani Wikipedians cooperation board. Please see the project page for more details, to request intervention on the notification board or peruse other tasks.

It is requested that an image or photograph of 2011 India–Pakistan border skirmish be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.

Wikipedians in the following regions may be able to help:
Pakistan	India

The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Map needed

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality.
Wikipedians in India may be able to help!

Map needed

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality.
Wikipedians in Pakistan may be able to help!

Unsourced info and new sources

Hi @Kautilya3:, I had a look at this page and it seems the number 5 killed for Indian Army has no source. The link provided which was added in 2015 is dead or no longer accessible. I did try searching for a news source during that period but could not find any nor could I locate this very source or some variation of it (not sure if someone verified it at that moment in time). I think this should be reverted to 1 killed (per the BBC source) and add that these are Pakistani and Indian kills respectively.
Also, I think there were reports in 2016 about "Operation Ginger" which is claimed to have occurred in 2011. The time frame is exactly the same as this clash and so is the location. Should this be added as Indian claims to this page with a balanced description of the incident? ([1], [2], [3], [4]). Of course, if we chose to include this then the numbers will have to be updated accordingly to reflect these (since the sources present a string of incidents from July to September which are connected). What is your opinion on this? Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 20:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Operation Ginger should be definitely covered. Perhaps here first. And if it looks like it was a similar incident to what happened in 2017 then perhaps it should be spun off into a separate article. I haven't look at the sources enough to know. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:03, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean 2016 (and not 2017)? If that is the case then, 2011 India–Pakistan border skirmish == Operation Ginger. There are no other incidents covered in this event beyond Operation Ginger. This, in my opinion, is not like India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2016–present) and 2016 Indian Line of Control strike. Adamgerber80 (talk) 21:09, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As for casualties and other information, try searching for 2011 ceasefire violations. I also found this nice source. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:11, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. So yes the source you have provided is indeed corroborated by this source as well ([5]). This number however is for the entire year while this page is, as of now, only covering 30 August 2011 – 1 September 2011(2 days). And we only have one source for those 2 days which places the number at 1 (minus Operation Ginger). My view here is, to make this page about this skirmish (which is essentially Operation Ginger and add the events in Summer which build up to it). We don't have to include information on every ceasefire violation which went on between the 2 countries since we don't have any precedence for that. Thoughts? Adamgerber80 (talk) 19:54, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, a cross-border raid is not a "skirmish". So, why don't you update the article first (which is remarkably content-free at the moment), and we can worry about the infobox later. Please note that The Hindu is a reliable source. Government officials are not, no matter which government they belong to. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:03, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I will get on this sometime next week. In the meantime, I will also try to find more sources on this. Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Kautilya3: This took some time but I have finally updated the page with information on Operation Ginger and divided the sections based on respective claims by both countries. We have some outstanding issues to discuss, namely, the casualty count and the name of the article.

I proposed the casualty count to be 4 Indian soldiers killed, 1 injured (Indian claim), 3 Pakistani soldiers killed (Pakistani claim) and 8 Pakistani soldiers killed, 3 injured (Indian claim).

On the name of the article, I believe that this should be renamed to Operation Ginger (based on other articles which had named operations) but I would like to hear your and the views of other editors before we do that. Thoughts? Adamgerber80 (talk) 18:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]