Talk:2010 United States foreclosure crisis

Major article revisions needed

As of today it has been some time since this article was updated. This article is currently titled "2010 United State foreclosure crisis", yet it really looks at the instance of erroneous foreclosures which accompanied a much larger foreclosure epidemic. These foreclosures began in 2007 and triggered the Financial crisis of 2007–08. Post-2008, as unemployment skyrocketed, foreclosures increased dramatically. A portion of those foreclosures were initiate by banks and investors without legal authority, either due to fraudulent practices before or after the housing market collapse. This article currently focuses solely on the fraudulent actions rather than the larger foreclosure crisis as the title suggests. I would recommend the following structure be adopted.

1. Overview of the history of foreclosure in US housing and the role of foreclosure in the Financial crisis of 2007–08, the Subprime Mortgage Crisis 2007-2009 and the Great Recession
3. Overview of the foreclosure numbers as reported in realtytrac or coreclogic from 2007 through present day
5. Overview of fraudulent foreclosure wave (this section would include much of the current content) including the Independent Foreclosure Review
7. Overview of loss mitigation efforts, including HAMP as well as proprietary lender programs that reduce principal or otherwise try and forestall foreclosure.

I can begin working on this in time if there are no objections or other opinions?Editengine (talk) 17:50, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Some information already on wikipedia regarding this page

Here is a start: Robo-signing#Robo-signing_controversy —Preceding unsigned comment added by CoolMike (talk • contribs) 21:38, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I have copied that section wholesale into the present article. There is also information at the MERS article (including its talk page) that I think may be used for the present article. __meco (talk) 23:23, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - good work. I added a few paragraphs of my own to the end. For something peiced together quickly it flows OK. The original text in the link above wasn't great prose, but it works for now. I dislike the large itilic wall of text however. Anyhow, cheers. CoolMike (talk) 23:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I've also added a short summary at Subprime crisis impact timeline#2010 although that needs to be re-written, and I have also linked to this article from the Nye Lavalle and MERS articles. More links in relevant articles should probably also be placed. __meco (talk) 23:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Article title

I think the title needs to give some additional details. I have created a redirect at 2010 United States foreclosures scandal. I would argue that the use of the word scandal can be defended here even though such a term is generally discouraged. However, that was just a suggested title. __meco (talk) 23:39, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I like your title better than mine, except that I have found a bunch of sources referring to this thing as the foreclosure crisis. What about 2010 United States foreclosure crisis as the title? Definately it needs to be more specific than it is now. CoolMike (talk) 23:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I think your choice is good, so I support moving the article to that name. __meco (talk) 00:27, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree. 2010 United States foreclosure crisis is descriptive, accurate and appropriate. Dmarquard (talk) 14:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

These comments and this title are both quite outdated at this point. The foreclosure crisis is just now really starting to abate. I think this can reasonably be call the "United States Foreclosure Crisis". Thoughts? Editengine (talk) 17:30, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

References

Legislative Fix

This section I wrote for now largely from memory after reading a bunch about it. At the moment I can't find much good information about it, and I can't even find the bill number. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. My version is very rough. CoolMike (talk) 23:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Biased, unreliable text.

1/3 of Californians are illegal aliens? Really? Where the heck did that tidbit come from? Perhaps 1/3 of California foreclosures? Even that seems pretty high. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.114.12.34 (talk) 02:09, 2 September 2011 (UTC) This article is a transparent attempt to make the case that mortgage foreclosures are fraudulent. Conclusions are intermixed with weak or unsubstantiated facts. Article does little to explain the important elements or the robo signing problem is a factual, encyclopedic manner. For example: Robo-signing is a term used by consumer advocates to describe the robotic process of the mass production of false and forged execution of mortgage assignments, satisfactions, affidavits and other legal documents related to mortgage foreclosures….--76.73.216.105 (talk) 11:20, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Biased, unreliable source.

Hello. The sources for much of this article are woefully inadequate (the "newly formed" American's Against Mortgage Abuse,) much less unbiased or remotely neutral. Unless there is more substantive, unbiased viewpoints (ideally without large, red type crying about the "White Collar Mafia), I will remove the cited material within the next week.

Please clean up this article as soon as possible.

I recommend Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, and our reliable sources guide.

Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 02:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. The sources you are talking about were cut and pasted wholesale from another wikipedia article about a particluar robo-signer. This section will be cleaned up and proper citations will be added. Unfortunately, I only have a few fleeting moments here and there to edit wikipedia. I can only hope that another editor will take charge here and clean up the article. Rest assured, there are well over a thousand reliable news reports regarding every aspect of the article. They just need to be found, read, incorporated and cited. If you get a chance please help out! CoolMike (talk) 02:44, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

An interesting counterpoint article

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69D5BZ20101014?pageNumber=1 Hard to say that this article isn't extremely biased, yet it is published on Reuters. Can't yet find a way to work it into the article. It basically says that wall street is blaming homeowners who can't pay their mortgage. It also claims that the procedural problems are simply procedural, brushing the accusations of illegal activities and fraud under the table. Anyways an interesting read for counterpoints. CoolMike (talk) 03:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Section to add - Potential Economic Impact

I don't have time at the moment, but I think we should add a section regarding the various forcasts of the economic impact of this crisis. I have read forcasts from experts as well as people directly involved in the crisis that range from very minor impact all the way up to potentially causing a double-dip recession. In terms of dollar costs for the banks I've read estimates from 100 billion at the high end to the low billions at the low end. CoolMike (talk) 16:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Interesting individual cases

I'm not sure how to deal with these interesting individual cases. The man in florida who was foreclosed on despite paying cash for his house (ie he didn't have a mortgage) comes to mind. See link here: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-wrongful-foreclosure-0922-20100921,0,36776.story I know of at least 3 or 4 other cases of mistaken foreclosures, such as getting the address wrong. On top of that in a bit of humorous news Wells Fargo accidentally sued themselves during prosecution of a foreclosure of a condo association. These cases are well sourced in the media, but I'm not sure if they are worth adding to the article. Individual cases shouldn't be encyclopedeaic unless there is significant importance and coverage of the case. One reason for referring to individual cases is that they provide an interesting counterpoint to the non-chalant attitude of some of the banks. I know that CEOs of BofA and Citigroup both stated that they think their processes are accurate, and a Citigroup official even went so far as to say that, "nobody has been wrongfully evicted..." or something to that effect. Obviously, the opinions of the high ranking banking officers deserve to be in the article. Perhaps we could counterpoint these opinions with expert opinions and the statements of Attorney generals and advocacy groups. CoolMike (talk) 16:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

This should all be included. As for the anecdotal cases with a humorous twist, I'm sure we can mention them without having to detail them. __meco (talk) 21:53, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Merge Foreclosuregate

It has been suggested that Foreclosuregate be merged with this article.

• Oppose. The word is a genuinely new one. It's not actually mentioned in the body of this article. It deserves its own stub just to explain the term. It's not an isolated reference. Reputable international journals are now reporting the widespread use of the term - see The Economist article quote in the Foreclosuregate article itself. Quote from The Economist:'How did foreclosures go, in a matter of weeks, from just another miserable statistic in America’s housing bust to the subject of a scandal with its own “-gate” suffix? The answer is a combination of sloppy (and possibly fraudulent) paperwork, a securitisation process that is even more broken than anyone imagined and a febrile political environment.'-TitleLawyersGoneWild! (talk) 12:57, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I can't find the article foreclosuregate. It appears that no such article exists. I do think we should include the term forclosuregate in the lead, becuase I have found 4-5 newspapers refer to the crisis with this term. Otherwise, tt is incredibly obvious that Foreclosuregate should be merged into this article, they are referencing the same event. CoolMike (talk) 21:38, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Nye Levell over emphasised

In the last few months the focus of the article has been directed towards Nye Levell, so much so that the majority of the article seems to be about him. In the grand scheme of things he isn't important to the article at all. We should make an effort to include additional corroborations and sources, rather than a few self-published papers. I will be re-adding some of the work that was removed in order to focus more on Levell's contribution. For example, there was a robo-signer who testified to signing documents without reading them. This testimony was the real powder keg for the explosions of news stories about the foreclosure crisis that we witnessed in fall of 2010.

I'd welcome input from other editors on this matter! CoolMike (talk) 16:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Lavalle, not Levell is considered among advocates and lawyers as the first to research and document foreclosure fraud and especially robo-signing. See his reports on 4closurefraud such as this one http://4closurefraud.org/2011/08/19/nye-lavalle-after-the-storm-foreclosure-fraud-robo-%C2%ADsigning-continues-must-read-report/

We have done searches for term and practice in media and mortgage articles. his reports are the first we can identify on the subject. Too many newcomers and media think this is a recent practice, its not. It's important for media and for regulators to know that Lavalle warned others and identified the practice over a dozen years ago and was ignored. Too many think robo-signing is a by product of the increased foreclosures of the recent financial crisis, its not. It was a patented process identified by Lavalle over a decade ago. We need to let people know its not a recent event, but a fraudulent practice documented to go back over a dozen years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MortgageProf (talk • contribs) 01:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

• I'd agree with CoolMike. There have been lots of selfpublished sources bigging up Lavalle. And lots of IP editors who are, coincidentally, in the same location that Lavalle is in. bobrayner (talk) 04:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Primary Documents Available on National Mortgage Settlements Digital Archive

Hello all --

UNC School of Law has begun to upload documents related to settlements with both servicers (the NMS and OCWEN / SunTrust / HSBC) and originators (ChaseMortgage for now) at this site: http://scholarship.law.unc.edu/mortgage-settlements/

There is likely some way to work this into the section on the settlements or into the additional links pages.

What does everyone think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kirschsubjudice (talk • contribs) 15:19, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Notification: Housing in the United States

A request has been submitted to WikiProject United States for a new article to be created on the topic of Housing in the United States. Please join the discussion or consider contributing to the new article. Best regards, -- M2545 (talk) 08:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)