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Talk:2010–11 PFC CSKA Sofia season

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Format

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I took the liberty of reformatting the article so it now matches the format used by the articles on CSKA's 2009–10 and 2008–09 seasons. Any objections to that could be raised and discussed here. --Магьосник (talk) 08:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Format

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Hello, Магьосник, I'm the one that contributed to the pages regarding the last 2 seasons of CSKA. I wanted to use new formats for the matches, because I beleive this page could develop with every year and I don't want to use the same template for every year. --Becksperson (talk) 16:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, please accept congratulations on your remarkable work then!
About the different formats, I think the consistency of the encyclopedia is something that matters and does not deserve to be neglected. Also, we should estimate which format is capable of being more informative for the reader.


Format used up to now
20 August 2009 Play-off Round Leg 1 CSKA 0 – 0 Russia Dynamo Moscow Sofia
20:00 EEST Orlinov Yellow card 45'
Yanchev Yellow card 81'		 (Report) Fernández Yellow card 42'
Kombarov Yellow card 45'
Roptan Yellow card 90+2'		 Stadium: Vasil Levski
Attendance: 23,250
Referee: Robert Schörgenhofer (Austria)
27 August 2009 Play-off Round Leg 2 Dynamo Moscow Russia 1 – 2 CSKA Moscow, Russia
18:00 MST Kerzhakov 10'
Kombarov Yellow card 86'		 (Report) Delev 14'
I. Ivanov 55'		 Stadium: Arena Khimki
Attendance: 8,486
Referee: Michael Weiner (Germany)
17 September 2009 Group Stage Matchday 1 CSKA 1 – 1 England Fulham Sofia
20:00 EEST Michel Platini 62'
Minev Yellow card 30'
Michel Platini Yellow card 90'
Marquinhos Yellow card 90+3'		 (Report) Kamara 65'
Greening Yellow card 23'
Smalling Yellow card 47'
Kamara Yellow card 89'		 Stadium: Vasil Levski
Attendance: 28,000
Referee: Darko Čeferin (Slovenia)
1 October 2009 Group Stage Matchday 2 Roma Italy 2 – 0 CSKA Rome, Italy
21:05 CEST Okaka Chuka 20'
Perrotta 23'
Menez Yellow card 90+2'		 (Report) Stadium: Stadio Olimpico
Attendance: 16,027
Referee: Vladimír Hriňák (Slovakia)


Newly proposed format
Kick Off Opponent Venue Result
F / A 		Scorers Referee Attendance Report
2009-08-20 20:00 EEST Russia Dynamo Moscow Bulgaria Vasil Levski, Sofia 0–0 – Austria Robert Schörgenhofer 23,250 MR
2010-06-27 18:00 MST Russia Dynamo Moscow Russia Arena Khimki, Moscow 2–1 Delev 14'
I. Ivanov 55' 		Germany Michael Weiner 8,486 MR
2009-09-17 20:00 EEST England Fulham Bulgaria Vasil Levski, Sofia 1–1 Michel Platini 62' Slovenia Darko Čeferin 28,000 MR
2009-10-01 21:05 CEST Italy Roma Italy Stadio Olimpico, Rome 0–2 – Slovakia Vladimír Hriňák 16,027 MR


The latter fails to show the opponent's scorers and the cautions. If we supply those for the table too, it will get exceptionally overburdened, and that would apply particularly much for not-so-wide screen monitors. The former, meanwhile, uses template:footballbox_collapsible, whose very purpose is to neatly and compactly present all the notable data for a football game. Your opinion is of course valuable too, even more so as many articles in this category and the subcategories thereof prefer the tables format. We can revert the variant as it was, if you would like so.
One possible improvement I was thinking of recently could be the inclusion of some text, like what has been done here, for instance. And also, you've probably noticed that I supplied some extra sources for the pre-season friendlies. That was because some of the information, regarding most often the kick-off time and sometimes some scorers and yellow card receivers, was not in the main report given originally. I was aiming to provide verifiability for every detail mentioned. If we could find a comprehensive source that mentions every item of statistics we have included in the game infobox, then we wouldn't need any additional sources.
Cheers! It's still me, I gave up my old sig. --Theurgist (talk) 04:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I took the new pattern exactly from the Liverpool site, but it is not necessary to be that way. It would be great if we have text regarding the performances for each month, but we should clear out what kind of information should consist in those texts.
Another idea that came up to my mind is to use the format of FC Bayern München for the season results, because the league matches are take most of the space, so it could be great if we keep all of the matches information but in less space. The same format was used on the page for the last season of Steaua Bucuresti. You may see that I took a lot of the formats from there and implemented them in the current CSKA Sofia page.
What bothers me most is to find a proper way to distribute as much as possible information regarding the friendlies (although in gong.bg, sportal.bg and other Bulgarian websites there is not so many) and also to keep the links that you brought up from the opponent's websites. Another thing is to have a proper format regarding the European matches with group tables (if CSKA succeeds to go in the group phase again, hopefully they will do!) and detailed match information. Maybe we could make a special page regarding the matches of CSKA in Europe (historically and for the current season). --Becksperson (talk) 06:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
FC Bayern 2009/10 format
Match
 Date
 Ground
 Opponent
 Score1
 Pos.
 Pts.
 GD
 Report
1 8 August A 1899 Hoffenheim 1 – 1 10 1 0
Report Report link
Kick off
18:30 CEST
Attendance
30,150 (capacity)
Referee
1899 Hoffenheim Bayern Munich
Obasi 41'
Olić 25'
van Bommel Yellow card 76'
Müller Yellow card 90'
2 15 August H Werder Bremen 1 – 1 11 2 0
Report Report link
Kick off
15:30 CEST
Attendance
69,000 (capacity)
Referee
Bayern Munich Werder Bremen
Özil 39'
Fritz Yellow card 83'
3 22 August A Mainz 05Germany 1 – 2 14 2 −1
Report Report link
Kick off
15:30 CEST
Attendance
20,300 (capacity)
Referee
Mainz 05 Bayern Munich
Noveski 47' (o.g.)
4 29 August H VfL Wolfsburg 3 – 0 7 5 +2
Report Report link
Kick off
18:30 CEST
Attendance
69,000 (capacity)
Referee
Bayern Munich VfL Wolfsburg
Gómez 27'
Robben 68', 80'

Source: [citation needed]
1{{{t}}} goals come first.
Ground's country's flag and opponent's country's flag shown when from a different country of {{{t}}}.
Pos. = Position in league, Pts. = Points, GD = Goal difference, Ground: H = Home, A = Away, N = Neutral, HR = Home replacement, AR = Away replacement.

Comparison

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It's perfectly true that there will be a large number of games throughout the season, and showing them all would occupy much of the space of the article. It's also true that not all of the games are of equal notability. CSKA will play in the following tournaments, from most important to least important:

I experimented on which format would employ how much resources for the list. You can see the size of a page that would consist of a single match at the history page of Wikipedia's sandbox.

  • The format used up to now requires 811 bytes (edit summary footballbox collapsible), and shows everything.
  • The Liverpool page format requires 639 bytes (edit summary wikitable), and does not show the opponents' scorers or any cautions.
  • The Steaua page format requires 947 bytes (edit summary fb cm1 match), and shows everything. However, template:fb_team_ground_Dynamo_Moscow apparently has yet to be created, and the same applies for most of the A PFG teams. Therefore this patterns requires the creation of some templates.

It'd probably not be unwise to allocate different patterns for the different competitions, taking into consideration those factors such as number of games, level of notability of the games, space and bytes necessary per game, etc.

This page could serve as a comprehensive source for the kick-off times of all matches. By using it so, we would probably avoid the need of adducing citations of various foreign websites to support that sort of information. But CSKA's website still annoyingly tends to misinform about who certain goalscorers actually are, and the foreign sites would introduce some additional credibility to our article.

And if I'm sometimes absent from here for too long a time, don't forget I can be contacted on my talk page. Cheers! --Theurgist (talk) 14:47, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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