Talk:1984 World Snooker Championship

Qualifying for the 1984 Embassy World Snooker Championship

FYI

J Parrott beat Dennis Hughes 10-3; J Parrott beat C Everton 10-2; J Parrott beat P Mans 10-0

B Mikkelsen beat P Medati 10-8; B Mikkelsen beat F Jonik 10-9; W Thorne beat B Mikkelsen 10-3

M Morra beat G Foulds 10-2; Tommy Murphy beat J Fitzmaurice 10-8; M Morra beat Tommy Murphy 10-5; M Morra beat D Reynolds 10-7

W Saunderson beat P Morgan 10-8; P Mifsud beat E Hughes 10-5; P Mifsud beat W Saunderson 10-5; P Mifsud beat C Wilson 10-8

J Van Rensburg beat V Harris 10-7; R Edmonds beat D Greaves 10-0; J Van Rensburg beat R Edmonds 10-9; S Francisco beat J Van Rensburg 10-3

I Williamson beat P Houlihan 10-5; M Hines beat I Black 10-5; I Williamson beat M Hines 10-6; G Miles beat I Williamson 10-6

M Gibson beat G Rigitano 10-7; M Fisher beat P Thornley 10-8; M Gibson beat M Fisher 10-7; J Johnson beat M Gibson 10-3

E McLaughlin beat J Hargreaves 10-5; R Andrewartha wo John Bear; R Andrewartha beat E McLaughlin 10-8; R Andrewartha beat M Wildman 10-9

J Wych beat G Ganim Jr 10-1; G Scott beat L Heywood 10-7; J Wych beat G Scott 10-6; J Wych beat P Fagan 10-3

P Browne beat S Duggan 10-9; C Roscoe beat B Demarco 10-7; P Browne beat C Roscoe 10-4; E Sinclair beat P Browne 10-1

M Gauvreau beat J Campbell 10-7; G Cripsey beat M Parkin 10-4; M Gauvreau beat G Cripsey 10-1; M Gauvreau beat M Macleod 10-6

I Anderson beat G Watson 10-4; J Donnelly beat P Watchorn 10-7; J Donnelly beat I Anderson 10-6; F Davis beat J Donnelly 10-5

W King beat T Jones 10-9; M Watterson beat B Bennett 10-5; W King beat M Watterson 10-8; W King beat D Martin 10-8

J Caggianello beat M Darrington 10-7; B Oliver beat J Dunning 10-3; B Oliver beat J Caggianello 10-7; R Williams beat B Oliver 10-8

N Foulds beat D French 10-5; L Dodd beat J Giannaros 10-1; N Foulds beat L Dodd 10-4; N Foulds beat J Meadowcroft 10-2

B Harris beat D Sheehan 10-3; P Burke beat B Kelly 10-7; P Burke beat B Harris 10-4; M Hallett beat P Burke 10-5

188.29.8.15 (talk) 00:51, 2 May 2013 (UTC) Ralph

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Review comments

I've gone through the article and these comments are mostly FAO User:BennyOnTheLoose...

Lead

• "Davis became the first player to retain the title at the Crucible." It might be a good idea to put a note here about him succumbing to the Curse in 1982. My first thought was "oh, he retained the title, so did he not succumb to the curse?" but of course he'd already won his first title in 1981.

Tournament summary

• Put debutant list in alphabetical order (surnames A/F/G/J/K/M/M/P/S)
• "only time and only Foulds and Parrott won their first round matches." > "only time. Foulds and Parrott were the only two debutants to win..."
• The first bullet is suffering from citation overkill because all the tags are sitting at the end and it looks cluttered. Might be worth separating these out and putting them directly after each individual player in the list?
• "played in his first world championship final" > "played in his first World Championship final" (caps)
• "his losing meant that he missed his chance" > "by losing the match he missed his chance"
• "The first week of the event had at least a million viewers" > "In the first week, the event attracted at least a million viewers"

Qualifying

• When was the qualifying competition held?
• "The players were divided into sixteen groups" > "The players were divided into 16 groups" MOS:NUMBER (cf. 16 in next line!)
• "All matches were the best-of-19 frames." > "All qualifying matches were the best-of-19 frames."
• "Neal Foulds, aged 20[23] also had to win three matches" > "Neal Foulds, aged 20,[23] also won three matches"

First round

• Add dates into first sentence? (also applies to subsequent sections)
• "Knowles, who had recently featured..." Move the Sun info into separate sentence so the match result is up front and the trivia comes after? E.g. "Tony Knowles lost 7–10 to John Parrott.[26] Knowles had recently featured..."
• "for bringing the game into disrepute" > "for bringing the sport into disrepute" ?
• "in the Jimmy White and Rex Williams game" > "in the Jimmy White and Rex Williams match"

Second round

• (add dates into first sentence?)
• "Steve Davis had breaks" > "Steve Davis compiled breaks"
• "trying to pot the blue" > "trying to pot the blue ball" (add cuegloss link!)
• "Reardon got the snooker" > "Reardon laid the snooker" ?
• "failed to pot it and left it over" > "failed the pot and left the black ball over" (rmv double "it")
• "in the fifties in winning 13–1" > "in the fifties to win the match 13–1"

Quarter-finals

• (add dates into first sentence?)
• "as best-of-25 matches" > "as best-of-25-frames matches"
• Unlink Terry Griffiths & Jimmy White

Semi-finals

• (add dates into first sentence?)
• "as best-of-31 matches" > "as best-of-31-frames matches"
• "increased his advantage to 13–8" > "and increased his advantage to 13–8"

Final

• (add dates into first sentence?)
• "as best-of-35" > "as a best-of-35-frames match."
• "Davis dominated ... against White" > "Steve Davis dominated ... against Jimmy White" (use full names when first mentioned in section)
• "and at the end of the second session led 12–4" > "and led 12–4 at the end of the second session"
• "to reduce his deficit to 17–16" > "to reduce his deficit to 16–17" (invert losing scoreline)
• "the first player to retain the title at the Crucible"... add in the curse note here too!

Century breaks

• "which were the fewest since" > just "the fewest since"

---By the way, I really like the way you've woven the matches together, gives it a more narrative style, rather than just "this is what happened in match 1", then "this is what happened in match 2", etc. Rodney Baggins (talk) 10:22, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

@Rodney Baggins: Thank you! Hopefully I've addressed your comments without introducing too many new issues. I really appreciate your guidance. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Great, it's looking pretty good now isn't it! I've been through again and made some more changes, hope you don't mind. Please feel free to challenge me on anything you don't agree with, some of it is probably personal preference. One thing I'm unsure about is how we tackle the Crucible curse info. I had in mind a simple footnote, rather than placing the info directly into the body text. Maybe we could just put a footnote to cover the issue in the lead (as I think it's maybe not appropriate to add unnecessary clutter there), but leave the additional explanatory text that you've put at the end of the Final section to back it up? Rodney Baggins (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Personally I wouldn't mention the Crucible curse in the lead. To me it is bordering on trivia. Nigej (talk) 19:29, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Removed Crucible curse from the lead. Thanks again @Rodney Baggins:, I won't be as good at phrasing as you are, but I can hopefully use some of my learnings here in other articles. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:28, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1984 World Snooker Championship/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 08:04, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• "The event was organised by the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (" ref?
  • Added to prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Redwood Lodge, Bristol from " comma after Bristol.
  • Reworded slightly Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "78 players; 16 of these players reached the main stage, where they met the 16 invited seeded players" players x 3, reword to avoid the rapid repitition.
  • Reworded slightly Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "the highest prize pool" repetitive.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "The event featured 94 participants." strangely positioned - two sentences ago you noted 78 qualifiers and 16 pre-qualified, so there would probably have been the apt moment to note "totalling 94" or similar.
  • Reworded slightly Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Davis met countryman" -> "He met..."
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "the match, but the match " repetitive.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• " scored the championship's highest break, scoring " repetitive.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "A total of eight" -> "Eight"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "broadcast by BBC and ITV." in the UK. Was it not broadcast anywhere else on the planet?
  • I have no sourcing for other broadcasts. BennyOnTheLoose may have additional sourcing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
    • I've also drawn a blank on international TV coverage of this tournament. In Snooker: The Records (1985), Clive Everton says "Countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada are well aware of snooker's British television success story but have themselves proceeded cautiously in attempting to repeat it" and mentions "Thailand, who buys miles of BBC snooker footage." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
      • Shame. I didn't think it had too much coverage. I'd assume Eurosport covered it, but I can't find anything specifically stating it either. Might have to live with it at just those two. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "the 1984-85 snooker season " en-dash.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Alex Higgins provided" link Higgins.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Redwood Lodge, Bristol between " it feels like the third time you've told me this.
  • Deleted one entry. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "78 players.[7][8] The qualifying event ran from " -> "78 players from"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "20[12] also" comma after 20.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Former eight-time world champion" hmm, never like these... perhaps "Eight-time former world champion"?
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• Marcel Gauvreau, Bill Werbeniuk, Eddie Charlton, John Parrott, Fred Davis and Mario Morra all overlinked in First round section.
• " the top-16, to" no need to hyphenate.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Willie Thorne also [20] Virgo's " something's missing.
  • reworded. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• " Alex Higgins" should have been linked before this (see above).
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "surprise defeat of Davis in the first round " -> "surprise win in the first round" (you've already said it was a Davis defeat).
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "having a fine of £5,000 imposed " -> "being fined £5,000"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "of 138 the highest break" -> "of 138, the highest break"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "taking 10 hours and 10 minutes of playing time" is this significant? You don't mention other match durations.
  • Reworded. I'm not sure it is. BennyOnTheLoose - what does the source actually say? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
    • I think this can be omitted. The Times says "Steve Davis, the title holder, took 10 hours and 10 minutes of playing time to beat Terry Griffiths" and that they "toiled in tranquillity." The implication is that it was a slow match, but Snooker Scene for June 1984 doesn't emphasise this, just saying "the whole match was played to a very tight technical pattern." BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
    • I'll change. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "some cheese and tomato sandwiches" too much information?
  • Maybe? It's quite interesting that he attributed it to food poisoning in my eyes. I'll change to just sandwich. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "beat Stevens 16–14[37] to become" move the ref to the end.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "match played between " no need for played.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Davis dominated the first session to lead 6–1 against Jimmy White," don't need "against Jimmy White" as you just told us who he was playing.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "the last session" final session.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "The win was Davis' third ..." win win won. In one sentence.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• Higgins and world rankings overlinked.
  • I have gone through the article for WP:OL Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "7th" -> seventh.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Steve Davis won " (pictured in xxxx)? He didn't look like that in 1984.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• Could mention Jim Thorpe in the prose as the ref for the final.
  • Added a little on this, plus his prior finals. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• 1978, Rex Williams and Jim Donnelly overlinked in the Century breaks section.
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• What makes ref 22 RS?
  • It's the archive for Chris Turner's statistics (now a deadlink sadly). Turner is the only snooker historian that's well respected outside Clive Everton. Here is him writing for Eurosport, for example. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
    • In a short Obituary in Snooker Scene for December 2011 (edited by Everton), it says that Turner "collated billiards and snooker statistics for many years and ran a very useful website … in which key facts and figures were recorded." (I'd add a couple of others to my list of respected historians, but would definitely include Turner.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
• "The Guardian and The Observer" these should be in italics.
• Ref 7, is it really formatted as small w for where and big M for Money?

That's it for now, so it's on hold. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:12, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski hi, any chance you'll address these soon? I'm running quite a hard/fast seven day rule these days. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Apologies. It slipped my mind (that's what happens when you get all these noms at the same time, I suppose). I'll take a look in a mo. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:35, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

That should cover it The Rambling Man, apart from the two sourcing issues I'll raise with Benny (I don't even know where to start with the sourcing for this sort of thing (offline), so Benny deserves most of the credit for this article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Good work both. I'm happy to promote this now. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:28, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Possible sources for more on legacy

• Irish Times
• Daily Telegraph - White recounts how he used crack cocaine for three months after the 1984 final.
• BBC Crucible Classics (video)
• BBC - (see last para)
• Yorkshire Post - "for over a decade from 1984, White boasted a hugely impressive record in Sheffield, reaching six finals, two semi-finals and three quarter-finals."

TFA pending page

Adding this to WP:TFAP for the 40th anniversary ... does that work for everyone? - Dank (push to talk) 12:48, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Amount of frames per round seems incorrect

The current page states the following:

"Matches in the first round of the main draw were played as best-of-19-frames. The number of frames needed to win a match increased to 13 in the second round and quarter-finals, and 16 in the semi-finals; the final match was played as best-of-35-frames".

The first descrepancy I noticed is an "increase" from 19 to 13 frames from round 1 to 2. Checking the actual scoring in the (Web archive) source I'd say that the actual number of maximum frames per round should be 19-23-23-31-35? But it would be better to look up a source for that instead of inferring it from the scores. SleutelMan (talk) 08:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)