Talk:1983 Orly Airport attack

Secret deal

Here's what the Newsday article says about it:

On Oct. 25, 1981, ASALA launched a series of 15 bombings in Paris to win the release of an Armenian-American ASALA leader, Monte Melkonian, and better treatment for four other members charged with the takeover of the Turkish consulate in Paris, in which a security guard was killed.

Our sources confirm that the French cut a deal with ASALA in January, 1982. The bombings stopped, Melkonian was set free and the four other ASALA prisoners were given light sentences. One subsequently committed suicide in prison; the three remaining were released last spring.

The truce blew up - literally - with the Orly Airport bombing. But Garbidjian told French investigators it was an accident: The suitcase bomb was supposed to detonate on board a Turkish airliner, not on French soil. The French were furious anyway, and sentenced Garbidjian to life.

Grandmaster 11:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Changed back the wording modified by Meowy back to original quote from CS Monitor, which is cited in the article. Atabəy (talk) 15:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Garabedian quote

I think a direct quote from the guy responsible for the attack is kind of relevant and interesting. I don't see how removing it without so much as an explanation is acceptable. --RaffiKojian (talk) 00:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I did not remove anything. Please take a good look, I just moved it down the bottom, because the interview is recent, and was not given at the time of the attack. I believe it chronologically better fits at the end of the article. Grandmaster 04:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't notice it at the bottom, and there was no edit summer. You're right, it works better. --RaffiKojian (talk) 04:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The English version of the article from ArmWorld website is available [1] and was added instead of Russian link. Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 07:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It isn't a direct quote of his words - the original would have probably been in Armenian, but certainly not in that faultering English. In such circumstances it is best to just extract the information, which is what I have done. Meowy 00:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Why not let him speak for himself? It is a very short quote. Grandmaster 04:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

And why his claim that he killed 10 Turks was removed? I restored it back. I hope that was not the whole point of the rewrite. Grandmaster 04:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

He is not speaking for himself, and why do you want inaccurate content! Meowy 23:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

But if you want that part of the article to appear silly - go ahead and let Baku87 do your work. I'm actually surprised you don't restrain him - didn't my "over-egging the pudding" observation make sense? Meowy 16:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Nationality of victims

There are tons of sources which state the nationality of victims. Claims that the majority of victims were Turks come from fringe sources. We even know the names of some of the victims. I can try to find the name of every person killed, but in any case we should go with what the majority says. Here are some names from news reports:

Frenchwoman Jacqueline Kirchner died Wednesday night from burns received in the explosion last Friday at the check-in counter of Turkish Airways, officials said. Her 19-year-old son was killed instantly.

Orly Blast Claims Seventh Victim, New Threats. The Associated Press. July 21, 1983, [2]

Francois Luc is the name of another victim: [3]

These are 3 of 4 French who died there, and they are not Turks.

The American who died was Antony Peter Schultze. [4] [5]

As you can see, that's 4 of victims who were not Turkish, so clearly the majority of the victims could not have been Turks. So please stop changing the text to claim that the majority of killed were Turks, the sources do not support this, and those detailing nationality do not say that they were ethnic Turks. Grandmaster 06:41, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

It is better if you provide more sources saying the majority of victims were not Turks. Until now we have 1 source supporting that, and 2 sources proving the contrary. They both are reliable. And the sources you represented do not support you, you're just doing an original research using them. F.e. this source [6] even marks wrong number of victims (6), and that's all. Once again, please do not waste our time here if you even doesn't read the sources you find. Gazifikator (talk) 08:33, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Here: [7] [8] [9] And the number of 6 is not wrong, at the time the newspaper came out that was the accurate number. Two more people died later in the hospital, Jacqueline Kirchner was the seventh victim, and she died on 20 July 1983, the newspaper that came out on 17 July could not have known that. And one more person died after that. Grandmaster 10:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

You're discussing the citizenship, while Turk (not Turkish) is rather means ethnicity. That's what my sources claim. I'm not sure ASALA militants checked the citizenship before attacking, they attacked the place where most ethnical Turks were collected. Gazifikator (talk) 05:56, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Your sources simply make a mistake, because they mix wounded with dead. The majority of the wounded were Turkish (40 of 55), but most of the dead were not. I checked your source, and it clearly talks about wounded, not dead:

The bomb attack carried out on 15 July 1983 by Armenian terrorists at Orly airport, which killed 8 people and injured more than 50 (mostly Turks waiting to catch a flight to Istanbul) [10]

As you can see, the words mostly Turks waiting to catch a flight to Istanbul relate to injured people, not dead, and it is true that most of the injured were Turks. And we know for sure that most of the dead were not Turkish, because we know their names. We know the names of at least a half of them, and they are not Turkish. Kirchner, Francois Luc and Schultze are not Turkish names. So it is quite obvious that the book about Abu Nidal contains a mistake, since the author was not writing about ASALA, and did not carefully study the information about this attack. It clearly contradicts everything we know about this attack from other sources, which reported about this terror act. Grandmaster 06:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

This appears to be a weasel-wording way to add undue weight for propaganda purposes. This distinction being made between the injured and the dead (and being made by stressing their nationality) is artificial because the circumstances in which the victims became either injured or dead was entirely random: all were victims. Meowy 12:42, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Of course everyone was a victim. But it is clear from all the sources that most of the dead were not Turks, and most of the wounded were Turks. The names of the victims speak for themselves. Grandmaster 08:02, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

But their is no connection between their nationality and whether they were killed or not. Meowy 20:35, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

What is the point of your argument? I cannot understand what you are trying to prove. Grandmaster 20:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Aviation incident

Its been decided after some talk, that this and other airport bombings or massacres are not to be put in aviation accident templates or categorized as a aviation accident or incident. If you disagree, don't revert, but instead come over to this discussion[11] and we'll listen to your opinion....William 20:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)