Talk:1979 Argentine Grand Prix
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Hans-Joachim Stuck
[edit]As Hans-Joachim Stuck was the first non qualifier he was in line to replace Patrese who was unable to start after an incident with Piquet in the Sunday morning warm-up session. Since Stuck had all kind of problems during the weekend, the ATS team was not able to get his car ready in time for the race and the spot went to Arnoux. My question is: Should we list Stuck as a non starter or as a non qualifier? MotorsportMagazine talks about the Stuck situation.
- Here's what various sources say:
DNS Motorsportmagazine.com, StatsF1, GrandPrix.com, de/fi/fr/hu/id/it/nl/pl/pt/sl Wikipedias DNQ Formula1.com, ChicaneF1, Racingsportcars.com, FORIX, ca/es/gl/ru/sv/tr Wikipedias
- Given that there are credible sources on both sides of the ledger, I'm not sure which way to go. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:42, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
- There was a similar situation with Chris Craft in the 1971 Canadian GP - Craft initially failed to qualify for the GP, but following crashes for Pescarolo and Ganley in the morning warmup, would have been allowed to start the race, but couldn't due to engine problems. Lovely, who qualified slower than Craft, started the race. In that case, we listed Craft as "DNQ" - see the discussion here. On that basis, plus the fact that formula1.com, ChicaneF1.com and FORIX all list Stuck as DNQ, I'd be tempted to list him as DNQ too. DH85868993 (talk) 12:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- I agree. I think it would be best to list Stuck as "DNQ". If no one has any objections I'll change all the pages were Stuck is listed as "DNS" to "DNQ".Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- Fine with me. DH85868993 (talk) 08:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
- Jahn1234567890, I think quite contrary. As there is significant evidence from contemporary sources that he couldn't start (as opposed to not being allowed to start, which would be the case with DNQ), he should be listed as DNS. Just because there was a domino effect (Stuck went from DNQ to the last on the grid to the DNS, as a result of which Arnoux went from DNQ to the last on the grid), we can't ignore the intermediate step and pretend Stuck was DNQ – as eventually he wasn't DNQ anymore, and the reason he couldn't start was ATS's inability to prepare his car in time. cherkash (talk) 01:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Cherkash: It's not the point whether Stuck was allowed to start or not, Because he certainly was. Stuck was first in line to replace Patrese for the race, but since he was not able to "claim" his spot due to his car not being ready the spot went to Arnoux. The same goes for Craft: The consensus was he was allowed to start, but since he was unable to claim the starting spot he should be listed as "DNQ". That is at least as how I interpreted it. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
- Jahn1234567890: Being able to "claim the spot" (even if not actually claiming it) on the starting grid is opposite to not qualifying (DNQ). Which means that once you are allowed to claim it, you've qualified. cherkash (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
- @Cherkash: It's not the point whether Stuck was allowed to start or not, Because he certainly was. Stuck was first in line to replace Patrese for the race, but since he was not able to "claim" his spot due to his car not being ready the spot went to Arnoux. The same goes for Craft: The consensus was he was allowed to start, but since he was unable to claim the starting spot he should be listed as "DNQ". That is at least as how I interpreted it. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
- Jahn1234567890, I think quite contrary. As there is significant evidence from contemporary sources that he couldn't start (as opposed to not being allowed to start, which would be the case with DNQ), he should be listed as DNS. Just because there was a domino effect (Stuck went from DNQ to the last on the grid to the DNS, as a result of which Arnoux went from DNQ to the last on the grid), we can't ignore the intermediate step and pretend Stuck was DNQ – as eventually he wasn't DNQ anymore, and the reason he couldn't start was ATS's inability to prepare his car in time. cherkash (talk) 01:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
- Fine with me. DH85868993 (talk) 08:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
- I agree. I think it would be best to list Stuck as "DNQ". If no one has any objections I'll change all the pages were Stuck is listed as "DNS" to "DNQ".Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:18, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
- There was a similar situation with Chris Craft in the 1971 Canadian GP - Craft initially failed to qualify for the GP, but following crashes for Pescarolo and Ganley in the morning warmup, would have been allowed to start the race, but couldn't due to engine problems. Lovely, who qualified slower than Craft, started the race. In that case, we listed Craft as "DNQ" - see the discussion here. On that basis, plus the fact that formula1.com, ChicaneF1.com and FORIX all list Stuck as DNQ, I'd be tempted to list him as DNQ too. DH85868993 (talk) 12:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
I've restarted the discussion as a new section at WT:WPF1. cherkash (talk) 21:46, 3 December 2017 (UTC)