Talk:1968 European Cup final/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 10:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

The "n.a."s in the fair use programme image need to be addressed. I'd be surprised if this really meets the spirit of fair use anyway, I don't see how the programme cover enhances our reader's understanding of the article, the programme itself is not even mentioned in the prose.
- Removed. Harrias ^talk 10:57, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's a link for two-legged tie I think.
- Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You could link generic European Cup in the lead.
- Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link all the football jargon, so header, penalty, free kick, etc.
- Done. Harrias ^talk 18:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"a major club" I think it's best to stick with just "club" and perhaps find something that says it's considered the premier club competition (as you have in the lead).
- Removed "major": I think that the second part of the sentence "..contested by the best teams across Europe." provides enough context. Harrias ^talk 18:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each country qualified.[1] The competition was first played in 1955–56." feels like the wrong way round.
- Rearranged and specified for clarity. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each..." you then go on to prove this wasn't true for the first tournament.
- Resolved this by making it more specific. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Be consistent with your capitalisation of Final when saying "European Cup final/Final" as it differs across the article.
- Done. Harrias ^talk 18:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don't think this was necessary. Whether or not "final" is a proper noun depends on the context, so you can't say it needs to be one or the other all the way through without looking at how it's used each time. – PeeJay 19:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Asking for consistency doesn't imply one should ignore context. Obviously. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:27, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - My fault, I was lazy when I went through them. Harrias ^talk 08:14, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"They defended... They were losing..." in each case you've lost who "they" were because you mention another club in between.
- Replaced with "Benfica" in each instance. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"in each of 1956–57 and 1957–58.[4]" missing a word, like "tournaments" perhaps?
- Changed to "in both 1956–57 and 1957–58." Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what relevance Munich has to this article.
- Munich and United's European campaigns under Busby are completely intertwined not just in United's history, but in contemporary news reports. It would be a glaring omission not to include it. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link UEFA when you use it on its own.
- Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"the English Football Association" just "The Football Association" will do, there is after all only one "The Football Association".
- You and I know that, but does everyone? Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"but were subsequently eliminated in the semi-final" no need for subsequently.
- Removed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Shame the table columns aren't the same in each Route to the final section.
- Agreed, but I'm always wary of fixing widths, in case it messes things up for small screens. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eusébio is overlinked.
- Sorted (and the other duplicate links). Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"once again thanks to" not really encyclopedic in tone.
- Rephrased. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"the second leg.[15] In the second leg" repetitive.
- Rephrased. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" The Guardian said" who in the Guardian?
- Staff writer, not attributed: changed from "said" to "reported". Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"and booked them" perhaps "secured" rather than booked for tone.
- Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"got two goals each" scored rather than got?
- Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Guardian is overlinked.
- done. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"a "sad succession of near misses"" according to whom?
- Attributed; another unknown. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Manchester United were expected to beat them" ditto.
- I've simply removed this. Harrias ^talk 10:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" narrowly avoided going behind in the 27th minute" any more detail than the minute?
- Expanded. Harrias ^talk 10:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"had to go off injured," worth a footnote here explaining that substitutions were disallowed, because most readers will be like, "well wut? Bring on another player".
- I'm really struggling to find a source for this one. Harrias ^talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Alright, it would have been nice, but hey, certainly not part of the GA criteria. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"back-heeled the ball into the goal after a shot from Jimmy Ryan" was it after Ryan's shot was saved or because Ryan's shot ended up at his feet?
- Rephrased to "In the dying minutes of the game, Jimmy Ryan shot into a melee of players in the penalty area, including Brian Kidd, who backheeled the ball into the goal to make it 2–0.", how is that? Harrias ^talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Real Madrid is overlinked.
- Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"only a goal " perhaps "a single goal" to avoid that POV "only".
- Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"In The Guardian, Albert " Guardian overlinked again.
- Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hugh McIlvanney has an article.
- So he does, linked. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"newspaper A Bola concurred" not sure they concurred, the previous sentence slates the Man Utd team but A Bola said they were the last team they wanted to face...
- Made a little blander, hopefully that removes the apparent contradiction. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Denis Law is overlinked.
- Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Might want to link Surrey as this is a geographically "agnostic" article.
Especially as you link Harlow.
- Yup, linked. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" the 30,000 Manchester United asked for." -> " the 30,000 for which Manchester United asked."
- Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"standing tickets originally priced at 10 shillings were selling for £7" link shilling and presumably these were by touts? That's not clear.
- Linked, and added "on the black market" to reflect the source. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No need to link London.
- Oops, removed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"estimated television audience of 250 million" where/who broadcast?
- Clarified to "..had an estimated European television audience.." per the source, which gives no more detail than that. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"10 yards from " usually convert.
- Not that WP:OTHERSTUFF is a good argument, but 1981 UEFA Cup Final doesn't. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" high over the bar, before he hit the crossbar" bar/crossbar repeat.
- Switched the first to "goal". Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And shot/shot in that sentence too.
- Changed the first to "struck". Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"José Augusto and José Torres " both overlinked.
- Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"two dangerous chances" dangerous is POV.
- Removed. Harrias ^talk 20:40, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What is referencing the 4-3-3 for each team?
- @PeeJay2K3: Looking through the history of the article, it looks like you set the positions based on the DVD. Newspaper sources seem to differ: the only one that explicitly includes formations agrees that United played a 4-3-3, but lists Benfica as playing a 4-2-4. Do you have anything we can use as a reliable source for a Benfica 4-3-3? Harrias ^talk 08:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Going to chime in here. The marvellous Jonathan Wilson in his book, The Anatomy of Manchester United, states that Benfica lined up in a 4-3-3. He's not as forthright on the formation United adopted, suggesting the intention was to match it but that they differed from that plan. See here Hope this helps somewhat. NapHit (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I've actually found that transfermarkt has them, so have added that. Harrias ^talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Harrias Is transfermarkt.com now considered a WP:RS? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Ah, I see now that it is user generated; I missed that when I first looked it over. My bad. (I knew it looked too good to be true.) Harrias ^talk 13:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        @The Rambling Man: How about the Irish Daily Mirror? Harrias ^talk 13:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        It's not ideal but at the very least the Mirror is usually quite reliable for sports, and I don't find it on the verboten list at WP:RS/N and it's not quite "sky is blue" territory but close, so all told it's okay with me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the referee should be mentioned in the prose.
- Added. Harrias ^talk 11:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
MOSFLAG, not sure they're doing much here, and in any case, they should explain what they mean on first use.
- Ditto with 1981 UEFA Cup Final: I'd love to replace them with {{flagathlete}} but whenever I have tried on these articles, it just gets reverted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where are linesmen referenced?
- Removed. Harrias ^talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No need to link Italy. Twice.
- It was actually an easter egg link to Italian Football Federation, removed. Still there for the referee. Twice. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
European Cup, Charlton and Foulkes are overlinked.
- Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"just a year after" remove "just".
- Removed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" captain Bobby Charlton and Bill Foulkes were the only survivors of the crash to play in the 1968 final." to be fair, it's quite unusual that players remain with a club for ten years.
- Fair point, rephrased. Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"contested the 1968 Intercontinental Cup" when where?
- I don't think that level of detail about another tie is necessary in this article. Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Both teams competed" which "both"?
- Clarified. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Benfica have subsequently reached "probably needs WP:ASOF.
- Added. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"six more European" further (to avoid repeat of X more Y)
- Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You link Daily Telegraph in the refs but not any other works/publishers.
Oh you do, The Guardian but not consistently and not on its first instance.
- I have given the references a thorough going over, hopefully all nice and tidy now. Harrias ^talk 18:48, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have on the first pass, so I'll put it on hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Note: I'm just starting to work through this. I'm skipping a few points on my first pass, but I'm highlighting them in red so that I don't miss them later, I hope you don't mind. Harrias ^talk 13:17, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Eventually I have responded to each point above, would you be able to take another look? Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All good, literally. Happy to promote. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]